The Great Debate Megathread! Black Lincoln versus whiter, richer Douglas!

[Sheilbh]

Expectation management.  All campaigns try to lower the bar by which they'll be judged - Romney's a striking and unusual exception - so that any performance can be called a victory, or at least not a defeat.

Not all campaigns do it-- certainly not to the extent that Obama has in the past few days.  And it's like much like him to be humble.

No, it really is the norm.  Ben Smith joked that normal pre-debate spin is 'I'll just be happy if my guy doesn't vomit blood and flat-out murder our opponent with an axe.'  Raz is right about Bush-Kerry, here's an article from the NYT in 2004:

THE DEBATES: TWO CICEROS

With the post-convention-poll-bounce thing now over (Senator John Kerry did not really get one; President Bush very likely did), it is time to start speculating about an arguably more important phenomenon: the post-debate poll bounce.

The first debate is proposed for Oct. 5 and conventional wisdom has long held that it is the only one that matters. Rarely has the clear victor of the first presidential debate gone on to defeat in the election.

Not surprisingly, aides to both Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush are wasting no time trying to lower expectations for their man while raising them for the other guy. There was no greater beneficiary of this tactic than Mr. Bush, for whom expectations were so low in 2000 that political observers were primed to declare him the winner barring no insurmountable gaffes. That is essentially what happened.

The downside for Mr. Bush this time is that his performance in 2000 has won him a reputation for being, in his own way, an excellent debater. Mr. Kerry's aides are playing that for all that it is worth. "He's a very good debater," Joe Lockhart, Mr. Kerry's new press secretary, said of Mr. Bush. "He's got a track record now," saying that no one who has watched the 2000 debates "could say that he doesn't have real talent."

Asked about Mr. Kerry's chances at the debates, Mr. Lockhart said, "He'll be fine."

That, Republicans say, is putting it mildly. Mr. Bush's handlers have not, as yet, agreed to the debate schedule, and they are quick to point out that Mr. Kerry has been known as an ace behind a lectern since his days at Yale, where his debate coach was reported to have called him the best debater he had ever trained - other than Bill Buckley.

"John Kerry, as everybody knows, has debated and debated and debated," said Matthew Dowd, Mr. Bush's top campaign strategist. "He's the best debater since Cicero."

JIM RUTENBERG

As I say Romney's expectation management has been odd.  Christie was probably the least helpful surrogate since Ferraro when he said 'I have absolute confidence that when we get to Thursday morning, George, all you're going to be shaking your head, saying it's a brand-new race' (the two problems with that is that it raises expectations and is an acknowledgement that, currently, Romney's losing the race).

Since then I've read conflicting reports over whether that was the line Christie was meant to be pushing or not.  Subsequently the Romney campaign's playing it down, Paul Ryan was saying how this was Romney's first time on this sort of stage, others have commented on how good Obama was in 2008.

I'm not sure about that though, I think Clinton won more of the debates than Obama.  But like Romney in the primary debates he always did enough to not lose.  He did win the McCain debates though.

[derspiess]

No, it really is the norm.  Ben Smith joked that normal pre-debate spin is 'I'll just be happy if my guy doesn't vomit blood and flat-out murder our opponent with an axe.'  Raz is right about Bush-Kerry, here's an article from the NYT in 2004:

Yeah, I know Bush did it, both in 2000 and 2004.  But I don't recall Gore or Kerry or Obama 2008 doing it.

[CountDeMoney]

Smells like another election megathread is necessary!

[Razgovory]

So did Seedy come up with the title or shelf?  It looks like a Seedy title.

[Neil]

Black Lincoln?  Jesus Seedy.  Way to devalue one of the greatest presidents your little state full of traitors ever had.

Lincoln freed the slaves, destroyed the agrarian aristocracy that was trying to hold his country back, established the equality before the law of the various peoples in the US, faced down the great powers of the world who would have loved to see the US destroyed and bested the surrender monkeys in his own party.

Obama sold out his attempt at a major reform to the medical lobbyists, got treated like a house nigger by the Congressional leadership of his own party, hasn't really made a dent in the lunatic-insano Tea Party and hasn't bombed China.

[CountDeMoney]

You act like I care what a foreigner like you thinks, Flanneled Martinus.

[Neil]

You act like I care what a foreigner like you thinks, Flanneled Martinus.

I guess I'll just have to succor the deep pain in my soul by living the life you wish you lived, in the country you wish you lived in.

[CountDeMoney]

You act like I care what a foreigner like you thinks, Flanneled Martinus.

I guess I'll just have to succor the deep pain in my soul by living the life you wish you lived, in the country you wish you lived in.

Still doesn't change the fact that you're not American.

You see, there are three types of Canadians:  French Canadians, normal Canadians like Jacob, Malthus and BB, and then there are the self-loathing wannabe Americans in Alberta like you that French Canadians and normal Canadians can both agree that are the biggest dickheads in the country. 

So keep wishing you were born an American and not in the national equivalent of "Miscellaneous".

[Neil]

"Alas, I wish I was American so I could have no health care, get screwed by big business, be poor and have to deal with black criminals"

Yeah.  For sure. 

[CountDeMoney]

When I start touting Pierre Trudeau in my avatar, then you can talk smack.  Until then, you're a pretender not a contender, Milhouse.

[Neil]

When I had a Jellicoe avatar, did I want to be British?

[CountDeMoney]

Anyway, instead of Canadians shitthreading, back to the topic: the debate tonight--or, as Colbert put it last night, "The Thrilla Between Chocolate and Vanilla"

Presidential debate could shed light on energy issues

Wednesday's presidential debate offers one of the final chances to pin down the candidates on the energy issues that have loomed so large in this campaign — from gasoline prices and green jobs to the Keystone XL pipeline and Solyndra.

On some of the biggest issues, President Barack Obama and Mitt Romney have been content to evade the specifics.

Obama, for example, has never offered a detailed response to more than 18 months of Republican attacks about how his administration handled the failed $535 million Solyndra loan guarantee — aside from his defense that all decisions were based on the "merits." And Romney has left plenty of wiggle room in his shifting stances through the years on what, if anything, the government should do about global warming or incentives for renewable energy.

Debate moderator Jim Lehrer could also explore the wide gulfs between the nominees' competing energy visions — Obama's emphasis on green jobs and his call for repealing oil industry tax breaks versus Romney's promises to dramatically expand oil drilling and repeal Environmental Protection Agency regulations.

In some areas, the candidates' rhetoric has been quite similar, including their discussions of energy independence and an all-of-the-above energy policy — even though they disagree on what exactly those words mean. And although Romney has pledged to approve Keystone on Day One of his presidency, plenty of observers expect that the pipeline would win approval in a second Obama term, as well.

So what should Lehrer ask Wednesday night? POLITICO compiled this list of suggestions with the help of environmentalists, industry representatives, independent experts, campaign surrogates and congressional staff from both parties.

The debate's setting in Colorado could offer an ideal backdrop: It's a politically purple bellwether state that has been a hotbed for green energy as well as oil and gas.

1. Climate change

Questions for Romney: How do you explain the seemingly dramatic shifts in your position on climate change since you were governor of Massachusetts? As governor, you worked to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and opposed a coal-fired power plant because it "kills people." And you initially supported a regional cap-and-trade program although you ultimately declined to sign on to the program. Today, you oppose cap and trade and have criticized Obama's efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from coal-fired power plants. What specifically would you do to address climate change?

Questions for Obama: Your administration has proposed a climate change regulation for new power plants that opponents say will contribute to the death of the coal industry. How do you defend the regulations? And will your administration propose additional measures to address climate change in a second term, including rules to limit greenhouse gas emissions from existing power plants? Lastly, if it were politically feasible, would you again pursue cap-and-trade legislation?

Question for both: The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration says July was the hottest month in the contiguous United States since record-keeping began in 1895. Do you see this and other extreme weather as the result of climate change?

2. Renewable energy

Questions for Romney: Your campaign has said you oppose the extension of the production tax credit for wind energy, which expires at the end of the year. But you have never discussed wanting to kill the tax credit in interviews or on the campaign trail. Why not? Backers say ending the tax credit would cost thousands of jobs, many in key battleground states, such as Iowa and Colorado. Are they wrong?

Questions for Obama: Can you explain what exactly went wrong with Solyndra, and would your administration approve that $535 million loan guarantee if you could do it over again? Why did your energy secretary override objections from staffers at the Treasury Department and Office of Management and Budget to prop up the company despite its financial problems? Also, why is your administration falling short — so far — on your promise to create 5 million green jobs over 10 years?

3. Regulations

Questions for Romney: As president, how would you balance economic concerns with those affecting public health? Are there any existing or pending EPA regulations that you believe should move forward unabated? Which ones should go back to the drawing board or never be implemented?

Questions for Obama: When do the environment and public health come first in enacting regulations, and when should worries about jobs prevail? Which proposed regulations from your first term did you think would have gone too far? What regulations would be priorities in your second term?

4. Oil drilling and Keystone

Questions for Romney: You want to vastly expand oil and gas drilling, but what public lands or waters, if any, would you keep off limits? How would you ensure that offshore oil and gas drilling is done safely? Would you keep in place the offshore drilling safety and environmental standards the Department of the Interior has implemented since the Deepwater Horizon disaster as well as the Obama administration's reorganization of the scandal-ridden Minerals Management Service?

Questions for Obama: TransCanada has submitted a new Keystone route for consideration, and you have already approved the southern route connecting Oklahoma to Texas. Aren't you essentially signaling that you would approve Keystone's northern portion early on in your second term?

Given the length of time it has taken to make final decisions on both Keystone and Shell Oil's Arctic drilling plans, isn't it simply taking too long for these kinds of projects to win approval? How would your administration improve oil and natural gas production specifically on federal lands?

5. Hydraulic fracturing and the natural gas boom

Question for Romney: Should the federal government serve any role in ensuring hydraulic fracturing is done safely, especially in environmentally sensitive areas, such as those in Colorado?

Question for Obama: Will you expand federal regulation of fracking?

6. All of the above

Questions for both: You express support for increased domestic oil and gas production as well as recognizing large benefits from energy efficiency and renewable energy. How specifically would you compel a divided Congress to act?

Both of you have talked about an all-of-the-above energy strategy, but the president has proposed regulations that critics say would kill the coal industry, and Romney has stated positions undercutting green power. How do you reconcile these inconsistencies to develop a long-term energy policy?

With major tax reform looming as an issue in the next Congress, what energy tax policies will you pursue to keep energy-related job growth going in the next four years?

[derspiess]

So every four years do the major news outlets just copy & paste the headline "Polls Tighten on Eve of Debate"?

[Valmy]

So every four years do the major news outlets just copy & paste the headline "Polls Tighten on Eve of Debate"?

Hey they have to get people to tune in for debate coverage somehow.

[merithyn]

So every four years do the major news outlets just copy & paste the headline "Polls Tighten on Eve of Debate"?

Hey they have to get people to tune in for debate coverage somehow.

I'll be watching it this evening because my daughter wants to watch it. If I'm not really careful, that girl will end up in politics.