The China Thread

[Crazy_Ivan80]

So, what are the chances we'll wake up in a China-dominated world after this?

Immediately or in the foreseeable future? Because the probability of the latter has not changed.

pretty soon and far more openly than even in recent years. This is an excellent opportunity for the Party to flex their muscles. And they are. All those helping hands won't come for free.
And then there's the ruinous effect this'll have on the economies of the free world, coupled with the equally bad effect Trump has had on intra-Western ties (though he's hardly they only one to blame for that).
't Got me thinking...

[MadImmortalMan]

I think the Party is terrified. There was already what they consider utter chaos in Hong Kong. The economy has slowed, and it's not the gold rush atmosphere it was in 2005 or so. They've been clamping down on pretty much everything and becoming more and more oppressive. I think it's because they're afraid of losing power (and face). But mostly power.

I do think the future is going to have a huge Chinese participation though. Like in Firefly maybe. But it will be once China opens up and a couple generations go by. Definitely there will be a crisis or civil war in between now and then.

"The empire, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide. Thus it has ever been."

[Josquius]

They've done a pretty effective job of crushing regional identities though.

[Monoriu]

It is a crisis but also an opportunity.  Beijing wants to show to the people that it can manage a crisis well, and that it can lead the world. 

The real problem I think will be what happens after this is over.  Probably tens of thousands people will die all over the world and the economy will suffer.  Many countries are facing their greatest challenge since WWII.  People won't forgive and forget so easily.  There will be demands for change, review and accountability.  The worst nightmare of China will be a united world demanding changes, such as the consumption and trading of wild animals, transparency when it comes to diseases, freedom of the press, more access by NGOs and international agencies, etc. 

I think the WHO is also kinda screwed. 

[MadImmortalMan]

Oh yeah, the WHO is being exposed pretty badly. Good point. I think reforms will be demanded from them.

[Admiral Yi]

Interpol doesn't catch international criminals, the UN Security Council doesn't prevent wars, and the WHO doesn't prevent pandemics.  I didn't have overly high expectations of the WHO going in, and I wasn't disappointed.

[Monoriu]

Interpol doesn't catch international criminals, the UN Security Council doesn't prevent wars, and the WHO doesn't prevent pandemics.  I didn't have overly high expectations of the WHO going in, and I wasn't disappointed.

The problem is many people are saying the WHO is, well, on China's payroll and its only job is to say good things about China 

[MadImmortalMan]

Much like the Red Cross incident a while back.

[Habbaku]

I'm pretty out of the loop on the WHO thing. Can someone give me a summary or link me something useful about it?

[Fate]

It is a crisis but also an opportunity.  Beijing wants to show to the people that it can manage a crisis well, and that it can lead the world. 

The real problem I think will be what happens after this is over.  Probably tens of thousands people will die all over the world and the economy will suffer.  Many countries are facing their greatest challenge since WWII.  People won't forgive and forget so easily.  There will be demands for change, review and accountability.  The worst nightmare of China will be a united world demanding changes, such as the consumption and trading of wild animals, transparency when it comes to diseases, freedom of the press, more access by NGOs and international agencies, etc. 

I think the WHO is also kinda screwed.

Any talk or action in China about actually exterminating all wet markets? The 2003-2004 SARS outbreak was the canary in the coal mine. That only killed a few hundred. Now it's pretty clear horseshoe bats/pangolins are the source of SARS 2 / COVID -19. There will be a SARS 3 if the Chinese government allows this practice to continue.

[Admiral Yi]

Swine flu was a thing, so it's not just wild vs. domesticated.

Is it because in China different species are all jammed together, either on farms or in wet markets?

Why have no new animal transmitted diseases not popped up in civilized parts of the world?

[Fate]

Swine flu was a thing, so it's not just wild vs. domesticated.

Is it because in China different species are all jammed together, either on farms or in wet markets?

Why have no new animal transmitted diseases not popped up in civilized parts of the world?

It's not necessarily an issue of wild vs domesticated. The 2009 swine flu probably came from North American hogs so animal transmitted diseases can pop up in other parts of the civilized world.

Horseshoe bats and pangolins in China are a natural asymptomatic reservoir for a number of SARS virus variants, at least two of which in the past 20 years have caused serious outbreaks in humans.  Either they need to exterminate the natural reservoir species or ban wet markets. It's too dangerous for the world for this to continue.

Similarly there are bat species which are natural reservoirs for Ebola which I'd support extermination of as well, but that hasn't caused a global pandemic yet.

[celedhring]

Anybody here particularly attached to bats? What ecological role do they perform? I wouldn't mind getting rid. 

[Threviel]

They, like wasps, kill flies and mosquitoes. We have them around the house and I love them.

[Eddie Teach]

Not to mention their importance in fighting crime.