The China Thread

[MadImmortalMan]

A one-player game with just this guy and a bunch of city-states then:

[Monoriu]

Not city-states.  Barbarian tribes.  City-states are still technological equals.  China considers everybody else inferior. 

[MadImmortalMan]

So that made the century of humiliation so much more humiliating I guess.

[Monoriu]

So that made the century of humiliation so much more humiliating I guess.

Yes.  So China's recent rise isn't new.  It is just returning China to its rightful place. 

[Josquius]

That's the perrenial question with China. To what extent have they got over their old China as ruler of the world view and adapted to the global Post westphalian system and to what extent are they just pretending.

[Camerus]

I don't think that historical view is that deeply held among modern educated Chinese - and certainly not to the extent that modern nationalists and the propaganda organs of the CCP would like! There is a very deep strand of cynicism about Chinese society, its institutions and governance, especially when compared to those in Western / developed countries.

This manifests itself in several ways, for example in the desire of Chinese elites move their money out of the country to Western safe havens to the extent possible and corresponding capital controls in China of increasing strictness) to send children to education overseas, or even to emigrate entirely if possible. Due to censorship within the country, it's hard to measure these attitudes entirely, but I believe these types of things are pretty good indicators.

[Valmy]

The elites don't necessary indicate what the regular people think do they? The common people might be very sincere.

[Sheilbh]

Erm:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/business/media/china-expels-american-journalists.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

Edit: Really, really unsure this back and forth is helpful for the world right now.

[Camerus]

Yeah. And in the context of the Chinese government's desperate attempt to save their (even more) tarnished brand after COVID-19 and shift blame away from themselves for the Coronavirus, and instead attribute it to the United States, the US military, or, really, anywhere but themselves it's counterproductive.

From that perspective, expelling the New York Times and other mainstream left of centre outlets is dumb because many of those mainstream news outlets would have been among the most likely to be more sympathetic to China's narrative, as opposed to the more right-wing sources, which,  ever since the Trump election, have generally turned on a dime and become hawkish about all things Chinese.  Drastically heightened concerns about China will have implications for when the crisis is over and companies and states may re-evaluate supply chains, and the security implications of outsourcing of certain items to China.

And all that is quite apart from the worrisome escalation of tension and cultural drift that the move engenders.

[Josquius]

Isn't there a bunch of idiocy in the US that the (centre) left were the ones behind this?
Because. You know. We totally do that.

[Valmy]

Isn't there a bunch of idiocy in the US that the (centre) left were the ones behind this?
Because. You know. We totally do that.

Probably. But Syt's relatives were insisting it was a non-crisis that was being invented by the center left media to attack the President...while at the same time claiming it is a Chinese biological weapon.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

So, what are the chances we'll wake up in a China-dominated world after this?

[Agelastus]

So, what are the chances we'll wake up in a China-dominated world after this?

Immediately or in the foreseeable future? Because the probability of the latter has not changed.

[Grey Fox]

So, what are the chances we'll wake up in a China-dominated world after this?

We were already in one.

[Josquius]

It would be nice to see China finally sorting out their wet markets out of this