Reuters: US ambassador to Libya dead

[Viking]

Catholicism is somewhere in between the barbaric nature of Islam and proper, advanced religions like Protestantism.  But it's closer to civilization than not.

At least it believes in education, whereas neither Islam or Protestantism do not.

It believes in indoctrination.

[Eddie Teach]

At least it believes in education, whereas neither Islam or Protestantism do not.

So reading the bible oneself doesn't lead to heretical thoughts anymore?

[Viking]

At least it believes in education, whereas neither Islam or Protestantism do not.

So reading the bible oneself doesn't lead to heretical thoughts anymore?

Sola Scriptura

[CountDeMoney]

At least it believes in education, whereas neither Islam or Protestantism do not.

So reading the bible oneself doesn't lead to heretical thoughts anymore?

Only if it involves whipped cream.

[Neil]

Catholicism is somewhere in between the barbaric nature of Islam and proper, advanced religions like Protestantism.  But it's closer to civilization than not.

At least it believes in education, whereas neither Islam or Protestantism do not.

I wouldn't go that far.  After all, Catholic 'education' was devastating to Catholic Europe.

[Razgovory]

Catholicism is somewhere in between the barbaric nature of Islam and proper, advanced religions like Protestantism.  But it's closer to civilization than not.

At least it believes in education, whereas neither Islam or Protestantism do not.

I wouldn't go that far.  After all, Catholic 'education' was devastating to Catholic Europe.

Protestant ignorance has been devastating to the US.

[Jaron]

Protestant education and enlightenment was the torch that lead humanity out of the dark ages.

[Eddie Teach]

Protestant ignorance has been devastating to the US.

Nah, America's done pretty well for herself.

[Razgovory]

Protestant education and enlightenment was the torch that lead humanity out of the dark ages.

I didn't know there were Protestants in the 11th century.

[Jaron]

In my opinion, the Dark Ages lasted until the Reformation. The Catholic Church casts a long shadow.

[Sheilbh]

No. Please re-read what I said. Sheilbh says Suez happened too long ago to matter, I said, it should matter, see all these people obsessing about things that happened longer ago than suez. I am for fucking real, you, however, can't or won't read.

You should re-read what I said and the comparison I made. I think you've a point on Suez, but it happened a couple of generations ago and has been followed by forty years of support for authoritarianism. In addition the national myth about Suez emphasises the success of Arab nationalism over both Israel and the old colonial powers, given that both the US and USSR roles are not going to attract gratitude.

As I say it's like Britain and the war. It was a long time ago and our national myth, especially during the decline of Empire, is about 'very well then, alone'. A British view of the war covers the Blitz, the Battle of Britain and El-Alamein, not lend-lease. Because of that and because the war's rather wrapped up in British patriotism it's not a subject British people are likely to feel grateful about.

[garbon]

In my opinion, the Dark Ages lasted until the Reformation. The Catholic Church casts a long shadow.

Good thing you've moved on from teaching.

[Eddie Teach]

Has he though. I think he's angling to be on the faculty at BYU someday.

[Viking]

No. Please re-read what I said. Sheilbh says Suez happened too long ago to matter, I said, it should matter, see all these people obsessing about things that happened longer ago than suez. I am for fucking real, you, however, can't or won't read.

You should re-read what I said and the comparison I made. I think you've a point on Suez, but it happened a couple of generations ago and has been followed by forty years of support for authoritarianism. In addition the national myth about Suez emphasises the success of Arab nationalism over both Israel and the old colonial powers, given that both the US and USSR roles are not going to attract gratitude.

So you are saying what is done and when doesn't matter the only thing that matters is how the arabs represent what happened and they will always represent it in the manner producing least cognitive dissonance. If so then we agree. The Egyptians should be fucking grateful for 1956; a british/french owned suez canal backed by israeli military force would have been a complete manifest disaster for egypt in general. If they are not it is because they don't know their own history. This is a people that thinks it won the 1973 war and pretends the 1967 one didn't happen.

But it seems we have a consensus. Country are rarely grateful for anything. As Fouad Ajami said of Hamid Karzai, "don't expect gratitude in the hindu kush".

As I say it's like Britain and the war. It was a long time ago and our national myth, especially during the decline of Empire, is about 'very well then, alone'. A British view of the war covers the Blitz, the Battle of Britain and El-Alamein, not lend-lease. Because of that and because the war's rather wrapped up in British patriotism it's not a subject British people are likely to feel grateful about.

The myth is what matters the truth doesn't. What the USA does or does not do is almost incidental since how it is portrayed that matters. The actions of the USA and Israel are always protrayed as evil as possible regardless of what they do. The US gets blamed for what the dictator does AND it gets blamed for trying to overthrow him. There are no good actions that would satisfy the arabs. The very nature of US power and wealth is in and of it self insulting.

[Admiral Yi]

"Support for authoritarian regimes" seems to consist for the most part of recognizing a state diplomatically and conducting commerce with them.  By that token every country in the world (that I know of) has been "supporting authoritarian regimes" in the Middle East.  Do the people there have a legitimate grievance with the whole world?  Do the people of Cuba have a legitimate grievance with the whole world except the US?