25 years old and deep in debt

[DGuller]

Being elevated out of NJ? I'd be elated.

Yeah, but the cost, what cost. 

[garbon]

Oh the living costs are pretty easy to find on the web. You also get to be utterly fabulous.

[crazy canuck]

There is only a 20 point difference between the legacies that are accepted and everyone else.    You would have to assume a large number of legacy applicants to make the assumption that they take a large percentage of the seats.  Are Ivy league parents that fertile?

If only 50% of them applied even with a 20% acceptance rate that's 19% of the student population each year right there.

Exactly.  Yi said he read an article that suggested that only 15% of seats were left.  I made the comment that most of the seats must then be reserved for "minorities" (I cant imagine that many ahtletic seats being reserved).  Or his is misremembering the article.  Your math seems to support my conclusion.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

There is only a 20 point difference between the legacies that are accepted and everyone else.    You would have to assume a large number of legacy applicants to make the assumption that they take a large percentage of the seats.  Are Ivy league parents that fertile?

If only 50% of them applied even with a 20% acceptance rate that's 19% of the student population each year right there.

Exactly.  Yi said he read an article that suggested that only 15% of seats were left.  I made the comment that most of the seats must then be reserved for "minorities" (I cant imagine that many ahtletic seats being reserved).  Or his is misremembering the article.  Your math seems to support my conclusion.

The problem that both you and frunk are running into by using percentages this way is that it only holds true if Harvard theoretically accepts an infinite number of students each year.  Harvard has a hard cap of 1600 freshmen.  Thus, unless Harvard has a hard cap on the number of legacies they admit, it follows that the legacy/non-legacy ratio will increase as the generations move on, unless Harvard increases its incoming class size.  The analysis also ignores overlaps.  Some portion of legacy applicants will cover the athletic and minority goals of the university, and thus change that balance as well.

[crazy canuck]

The problem that both you and frunk are running into by using percentages this way is that it only holds true if Harvard theoretically accepts an infinite number of students each year.

I dont follow that logic.  There are not an infinite amount of legacy applicants.  There is a hard cap of people graduating from Harvard.  Not all of them will have children and not all of their children will apply to Harvard.  It is true that we are shooting in the dark to a large degree to come to an understanding of how realistic Yi's report that there are only 15% of seats left.  But there is some rough estimation that can be made.

[Berkut]

Some portion of the legacies could also get in on their own merits in any case.

I would suggest in fact that having parents with Ivy League level educations makes your overall chances of getting into an Ivy League type school vastly greater than the average even ignoring any preference given to legacy admissions.

[merithyn]

Well, according to their website, 45% of this year's incoming freshmen are minorities. Add the 20% of legacies, and that's not leaving a whole lot for others. Maybe not 15%, but when you do the math, that leaves only about 500 seats out of 35,000 applicants.

Link

[crazy canuck]

Some portion of the legacies could also get in on their own merits in any case.

I would suggest in fact that having parents with Ivy League level educations makes your overall chances of getting into an Ivy League type school vastly greater than the average even ignoring any preference given to legacy admissions.

That is the argument instutions like Harvard make.  But that fact that legacy applicants are accepted at such a dramatically higher percentage than non legacy applicants makes people suspect that there is more going on there.   The kinds of non legacy people who are applying to institutions like Harvard probably also come from families that are highly educated and successful. 

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

The problem that both you and frunk are running into by using percentages this way is that it only holds true if Harvard theoretically accepts an infinite number of students each year.

I dont follow that logic.  There are not an infinite amount of legacy applicants.  There is a hard cap of people graduating from Harvard.  Not all of them will have children and not all of their children will apply to Harvard.  It is true that we are shooting in the dark to a large degree to come to an understanding of how realistic Yi's report that there are only 15% of seats left.  But there is some rough estimation that can be made.

True, but as frunk pointed out you have some multiple x applied to the number of graduates from each generation when calculating the number of legacies for the next.  If x > 1.0, which it probably is, then the absolute size of the legacy pool is increasing while the number of entry slots remains the same.  Thus it follows that either legacies will consume a greater portion of the 1600 entry slots in later generations or the university will fix the number of slots that can go to legacies.

[Valmy]

Who are minorities exactly?  Are they simply all non-white people or is it for groups that are minorities at Harvard itself?  Like maybe 12% of the population is Latino but only 8% of Harvard is so they reserve a certain percentage for Latinos to correct the imbalance?

[crazy canuck]

Well, according to their website, 45% of this year's incoming freshmen are minorities. Add the 20% of legacies, and that's not leaving a whole lot for others. Maybe not 15%, but when you do the math, that leaves only about 500 seats out of 35,000 applicants.

Link

That proves my point that the largest percentage of reserved seats must be those set aside for "minorities" rather than the legacy applicants making up the greater share.

[merithyn]

Who are minorities exactly?  Are they simply all non-white people or is it for groups that are minorities at Harvard itself?  Like maybe 12% of the population is Latino but only 8% of Harvard is so they reserve a certain percentage for Latinos to correct the imbalance?

Ethnicity
African American 11%
Asian American  20%
Hispanic or Latino  12%
Native American or Pacific Islander  3%

[crazy canuck]

Who are minorities exactly?  Are they simply all non-white people or is it for groups that are minorities at Harvard itself?  Like maybe 12% of the population is Latino but only 8% of Harvard is so they reserve a certain percentage for Latinos to correct the imbalance?

It is an interesting question.  Harvard, and a lot of other elite schools in the US, strive for both racial and national diversity.  So for example, I know a very bright white kid from our high school that was accepted at harvard under the seats the set aside for foreigners.  The word is that American schools quite like Canadians to fill those slots.

[Valmy]

Ethnicity
African American 11%
Asian American  20%
Hispanic or Latino  12%
Native American or Pacific Islander  3%

Heh almost looks like Whitey is under represented with those percentages.

[garbon]

Well, according to their website, 45% of this year's incoming freshmen are minorities. Add the 20% of legacies, and that's not leaving a whole lot for others. Maybe not 15%, but when you do the math, that leaves only about 500 seats out of 35,000 applicants.

Link

That proves my point that the largest percentage of reserved seats must be those set aside for "minorities" rather than the legacy applicants making up the greater share.

Of course also seems unlikely that most "minorities" get in with seats reserved for them...