Molestation and the reputations of great men

[Razgovory]

He liked him some hookers, but I'm pretty sure they were age appropriate hookers.

You see ever see the picture of his wife?  No wonder.

[Phillip V]

My dear Friend,

I know of no Medicine fit to diminish the violent natural Inclinations you mention; and if I did, I think I should not communicate it to you. Marriage is the proper Remedy. It is the most natural State of Man, and therefore the State in which you are most likely to find solid Happiness. Your Reasons against entering into it at present, appear to me not well-founded. The circumstantial Advantages you have in View by postponing it, are not only uncertain, but they are small in comparison with that of the Thing itself, the being married and settled. It is the Man and Woman united that make the compleat human Being. Separate, she wants his Force of Body and Strength of Reason; he, her Softness, Sensibility and acute Discernment. Together they are more likely to succeed in the World. A single Man has not nearly the Value he would have in that State of Union. He is an incomplete Animal. He resembles the odd Half of a Pair of Scissars. If you get a prudent healthy Wife, your Industry in your Profession, with her good Economy, will be a Fortune sufficient.

But if you will not take this Counsel, and persist in thinking a Commerce with the Sex inevitable, then I repeat my former Advice, that in all your Amours you should prefer old Women to young ones. You call this a Paradox, and demand my Reasons. They are these:

i. Because as they have more Knowledge of the World and their Minds are better stor'd with Observations, their Conversation is more improving and more lastingly agreable.

2. Because when Women cease to be handsome, they study to be good. To maintain their Influence over Men, they supply the Diminution of Beauty by an Augmentation of Utility. They learn to do a 1000 Services small and great, and are the most tender and useful of all Friends when you are sick. Thus they continue amiable. And hence there is hardly such a thing to be found as an old Woman who is not a good Woman.

3. Because there is no hazard of Children, which irregularly produc'd may be attended with much Inconvenience.

4. Because thro' more Experience, they are more prudent and discreet in conducting an Intrigue to prevent Suspicion. The Commerce with them is therefore safer with regard to your Reputation. And with regard to theirs, if the Affair should happen to be known, considerate People might be rather inclin'd to excuse an old Woman who would kindly take care of a young Man, form his Manners by her good Counsels, and prevent his ruining his Health and Fortune among mercenary Prostitutes.

5. Because in every Animal that walks upright, the Deficiency of the Fluids that fill the Muscles appears first in the highest Part: The Face first grows lank and wrinkled; then the Neck; then the Breast and Arms; the lower Parts continuing to the last as plump as ever: So that covering all above with a Basket, and regarding2 only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old from a young one. And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal, and frequently superior, every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement.

6. Because the Sin is less. The debauching a Virgin may be her Ruin, and make her for Life unhappy.

7. Because the Compunction is less. The having made a young Girl miserable may give you frequent bitter Reflections; none of which can attend the making an old Woman happy.

8thly and Lastly They are so grateful!!

Thus much for my Paradox. But still I advise you to marry directly; being sincerely Your affectionate Friend.

[Martim Silva]

A quick review on google shows this to be a reasonably dishonest version of the story.  Jose's charges were dismissed because he showed he was working in Brazil at the time.  And while the Casa Pia abuse allegations do not exactly cover the Portuguese justice system in glory, there have been several convictions.

Oh yes, there were convictions. Suprising indeed.

And guess what: none of the convicted has since spent one second in jail (nor did they pay anything to the victims).

And as for José, I said what the people thought when the charges were brought up, before anything else.

It's worth pointing out that the 'dates don't match' was a defence much used by the pedos, because it depends on someone remembering the exact days they were raped - sometimes two decades earlier when they were very little - and if it is off by a couple of days the defendents can say they were not there at the time.

How well do you recall precisely in which days of which month did something happen to you when you were 9-12? (or 15?)

Anyway, the bottom line is that, while most of the population is *far* from convinced of his innocence, everyone is willing to forget, so as not to lose on the laughs. And it's that perception that is asked here.

[HVC]

In the context of his day and age 28 is an older woman  

[MadImmortalMan]

He was trying to eliminate the competition.

[merithyn]

In the context of his day and age 28 is an older woman

Benjamin Franklin was 39 when he wrote that letter to his friend, though supposedly his friend was much younger. No idea what he meant, then, by "older": older than himself or older than his friend.

[Valmy]

He liked him some hookers, but I'm pretty sure they were age appropriate hookers.

That was when he was a young man though.  When it was Ambassador to France time he didn't have to do that anymore.  But to the best of my knowledge none of his mistresses were young teens though.  He did enjoy socializing with women of all ages because he found them interesting conversation and enjoyed their insight...which was sort of a scandal in itself.  There is a long series of letters he exchanged with a young woman (though I think older than 13) named 'Katy' that are pretty famous.

Though I do not really see anything there that makes Franklin despicable.  He clearly loved women and they him and he respected them.  Heck he was calling for female sufferage after the Revolution.  My main issue was how he got bored with his wife and pretty much ignored her needs for the last 15 years or so of their marriage.  But that was part of the tragedy of Franklin, to the extent his life had tragedy, he never really could form close relationships with people though he kept trying and tended to fall out with the people who knew him best...like his son.

But if Meri find Franklin despicable then I shudder to think what she thinks of the other Founding Fathers he is definitly one of the least objectionable by modern standards.

[HVC]

Stop muddling up this thread with facts, valmy, it's unlanguish like.

[merithyn]

That was when he was a young man though.  When it was Ambassador to France time he didn't have to do that anymore.  But to the best of my knowledge none of his mistresses were young teens though.  He did enjoy socializing with women of all ages because he found them interesting conversation and enjoyed their insight...which was sort of a scandal in itself.  There is a long series of letters he exchanged with a young woman (though I think older than 13) named 'Katy' that are pretty famous.

Though I do not really see anything there that makes Franklin despicable.  He clearly loved women and they him and he respected them.  Heck he was calling for female sufferage after the Revolution.  My main issue was how he got bored with his wife and pretty much ignored her needs for the last 15 years or so of their marriage.  But that was part of the tragedy of Franklin, to the extent his life had tragedy, he never really could form close relationships with people though he kept trying and tended to fall out with the people who knew him best...like his son.

But if Meri find Franklin despicable then I shudder to think what she thinks of the other Founding Fathers he is definitly one of the least objectionable by modern standards.

I've already admitted that I made a mistake on this. I'm not sure what else you need me to say.

[Valmy]

I've already admitted that I made a mistake on this. I'm not sure what else you need me to say.

I enjoy babbling about Franklin and I jumped on in before I read your retraction

Still...that was at least interesting stuff right? 

[derspiess]

I can't help but really like Franklin, for all his flaws.

[merithyn]

I enjoy babbling about Franklin and I jumped on in before I read your retraction

Still...that was at least interesting stuff right? 

I wouldn't know. I got caught up on the last paragraph and forgot the rest. 

[Ed Anger]

Oh Troll Cats, I miss your daily updates. 

[Valmy]

I wouldn't know. I got caught up on the last paragraph and forgot the rest. 

Oh...did you have a favorite founding father I insulted?

[Barrister]

A quick review on google shows this to be a reasonably dishonest version of the story.  Jose's charges were dismissed because he showed he was working in Brazil at the time.  And while the Casa Pia abuse allegations do not exactly cover the Portuguese justice system in glory, there have been several convictions.

Oh yes, there were convictions. Suprising indeed.

And guess what: none of the convicted has since spent one second in jail (nor did they pay anything to the victims).

And as for José, I said what the people thought when the charges were brought up, before anything else.

It's worth pointing out that the 'dates don't match' was a defence much used by the pedos, because it depends on someone remembering the exact days they were raped - sometimes two decades earlier when they were very little - and if it is off by a couple of days the defendents can say they were not there at the time.

How well do you recall precisely in which days of which month did something happen to you when you were 9-12? (or 15?)

Anyway, the bottom line is that, while most of the population is *far* from convinced of his innocence, everyone is willing to forget, so as not to lose on the laughs. And it's that perception that is asked here.

Again, you sure seem to be less then accurate.  And I'm only going off of wiki.

Nobody has served any time in jail because appeals are outstanding.  One guy was given a seven year sentence.