Breivik gets 21 years

[Razgovory]

See, in Scandiweenia it's often a good idea to commit a serious crime just to improve your standard of living.

I don't think what you saw in those pictures represents an increase in standard of living for most Norwegians.

It's nicer then my dorm was in college.

[Solmyr]

Yeah, in Finland the living conditions of prisoners are better than of most students (or most retirees, for that matter). And you are free to get a degree while serving a sentence.

[Admiral Yi]

And you are free to get a degree while serving a sentence.

I don't see the problem with this.

[Razgovory]

I wonder what you can get with a BA and felony conviction.

[Martinus]

Formally he gets a life sentence but that has been normalized to 21 years.

What does this mean?

It means that he serves 21 years without parole. Then after that, every five years he can try to convince some board or other that he's not a danger to society which will result in release. He could end up on the inside until he's dead.

Eh, no...

You are mixing up stuff here.

Breivik has NOT been sentenced to prison, he has been sentenced to storage. Note the word, storage. It is not a punishment. He is being removed from society for societies sake. This is not about attempting to reform him he cannot in the words of every "reformed criminal" pay his debt to society.

Just to elaborate on the lexicon, and when I first learned the meaning of norwegian prison words I bust a vein.

Life - the longest peacetime sentence a norwegian court can give, it is normalized to 21 years so a life sentence for a 20 year old and a 50 year old are not substantively different.

Year - a norwegian prison year is 8 months. Yes, norwegian prisoners get vacation days. And, willy mays style, they get released for weekend visits to family and often for christmas.

Prison - regular prison as you know it in the rest of the world. Prisoners are eligible for parole after 2/3 of their sentenced has been served (14 prison years for a life sentence, approx 10 real years), with good behavior parole is always granted.

Storage - a sentence which includes a regular prison sentence but also requires a parole hearing to be released. This is a relatively new innovation for norwegian justice and nobody sentenced to storage has yet been released. The english language equivalent is life with eligability for parole after 21 years. Though technically the state has to petition for parole being denied to the best of my knowledge this petition has never been refused and the state has never declined to make such a petition.

Breivik has been sentenced to storage. He can petition for release after 14 prison years and he will be released after 21 prison years unless the state petitions to keep him in. Norwegian government being the incestious little petry dish that it is this boils down to him being held at the justice minister's leasure.

Wow, I gotta say your system is very weird. It's both very humane but also very illiberal (the indefinite storage for example). It sounds like something invented by benevolent aliens.

[Martinus]

I wonder what you can get with a BA and felony conviction.

You mean in terms of employment? In Europe, your prospective employer cannot ask for (or check) your criminal record, unless the job is of the kind that expressly (by law) calls for a clean record, such as being a judge. There are also some jobs which cannot be performed by someone who has a specific, related type of crime on their record (e.g. someone guilty of credit fraud cannot work as a banker).

Furthermore, once you serve the time (and usually after a certain period thereafter), your criminal record is purged (unless you commit another crime), which means that for all purposes you are treated as if you were never convicted.

[The Brain]

Wouldn't it be better to rehabilitate the criminals?

[Zanza]

Your description does not apply to all European countries, Marti.

[Martinus]

Your description does not apply to all European countries, Marti.

In which part?

[Zanza]

In this part of Europe, your prospective employer can ask for your criminal record regardless of the job in question. Even landlords occasionally ask for it, which is legal.
Some crimes, e.g. Breivik's, would also never be purged from the criminal record.

[Octavian]

In this part of Europe, your prospective employer can ask for your criminal record regardless of the job in question. Even landlords occasionally ask for it, which is legal.
Some crimes, e.g. Breivik's, would also never be purged from the criminal record.

Yeah it's the same here in Denmark.

[Viking]

Wow, I gotta say your system is very weird. It's both very humane but also very illiberal (the indefinite storage for example). It sounds like something invented by benevolent aliens.

I'm gonna use that, every time I discuss norwegian politics with norwegians.

[Solmyr]

Wow, I gotta say your system is very weird. It's both very humane but also very illiberal (the indefinite storage for example). It sounds like something invented by benevolent aliensScandinavians.

FYP.

[dps]

I wonder what you can get with a BA and felony conviction.

You mean in terms of employment? In Europe, your prospective employer cannot ask for (or check) your criminal record, unless the job is of the kind that expressly (by law) calls for a clean record, such as being a judge. There are also some jobs which cannot be performed by someone who has a specific, related type of crime on their record (e.g. someone guilty of credit fraud cannot work as a banker).

Furthermore, once you serve the time (and usually after a certain period thereafter), your criminal record is purged (unless you commit another crime), which means that for all purposes you are treated as if you were never convicted.

If you're an infamous criminal, though, prospective employers aren't going to have to ask.