How do I lose 5 pounds in 7 days?

[Malthus]

By the by, it isn't common in insurance companies. It's a new thing. And it's stupid. BMI means that most of the world's Olympians are obese, some morbidly so. It was created to determine trends among thousands of people and was never intended to be used for a single person's health guidelines. It's worthless as the sole process to be used on something like this, but this company is going to charge extra money based on it?

So you're saying that knowing a person's BMI won't help you predict his/her health or healthcare costs? 

Watch out Merithyn! You poked the actuary! 

[Malthus]

I don't understand how people can be so smug on topics that they don't know anything about.

After so many years, Languish remains a mystery to garbon. 

[derspiess]

Nothing's going to perfectly predict every individual person's costs, but on a macro level I would say BMI is probably a fair way to assess risk.

My company pretty much does what Meri's company does, but they start out charging you a higher rate and then if you meet certain goals for personal health you get a discount.

[HVC]

By the by, it isn't common in insurance companies. It's a new thing. And it's stupid. BMI means that most of the world's Olympians are obese, some morbidly so. It was created to determine trends among thousands of people and was never intended to be used for a single person's health guidelines. It's worthless as the sole process to be used on something like this, but this company is going to charge extra money based on it?

So you're saying that knowing a person's BMI won't help you predict his/her health or healthcare costs? 

Watch out Merithyn! You poked the actuary! 

I did that once. She gave me crabs

[merithyn]

Nothing's going to perfectly predict every individual person's costs, but on a macro level I would say BMI is probably a fair way to assess risk.

For the overall group fees, yes, I agree. For individual assessment, it is not. There has to be far more information provided than just a BMI to be able to assess an individual's health.

My company pretty much does what Meri's company does, but they start out charging you a higher rate and then if you meet certain goals for personal health you get a discount.

This actually makes a lot more sense to me, so long as those personal health goals are reasonable and not reliant on just the BMI. It offers employees the incentive to work toward specific goals to reduce their costs, which is far better than penalizing based on a single number.

[DGuller]

I've been saying that for years. It doesn't take into account body shapes or sizes. It doesn't take into account muscle weight. It was NEVER meant to be used for individual health analysis. It is a terrible way to predict health, so it follows that it's a terrible way to predict healthcare costs for an individual.

In car insurance, if you get a speeding ticket, your insurance rates will probably rise.  Insurance companies don't take into account whether the speeding ticket was issued by Officer Dickwad, who cites people for going 67 in 65 near the end of the month, or by Officer Sweetiepie, who won't pull you over until you do 92 in 65, and then he will knock 25 mph off the cited speed.  Does that make your driving record useless for predicting your insurance costs as well?

[Malthus]

I did that once. She gave me crabs

What are the odds?

Well, she probably knows. 

[Malthus]

Nothing's going to perfectly predict every individual person's costs, but on a macro level I would say BMI is probably a fair way to assess risk.

For the overall group fees, yes, I agree. For individual assessment, it is not. There has to be far more information provided than just a BMI to be able to assess an individual's health.

My company pretty much does what Meri's company does, but they start out charging you a higher rate and then if you meet certain goals for personal health you get a discount.

This actually makes a lot more sense to me, so long as those personal health goals are reasonable and not reliant on just the BMI. It offers employees the incentive to work toward specific goals to reduce their costs, which is far better than penalizing based on a single number.

The problem is that pricing would be made more individually fair to the exact degree as insurance companies become more intrusive into the health of individuals. That carries some costs as well, since the company has to pay to be intrusive, and people are likely to dislike being pinched with calipers or whatever by some insurance company nurse.

[merithyn]

In car insurance, if you get a speeding ticket, your insurance rates will probably rise.  Insurance companies don't take into account whether the speeding ticket was issued by Officer Dickwad, who cites people for going 67 in 65 near the end of the month, or by Officer Sweetiepie, who won't pull you over until you do 92 in 65, and then he will knock 25 mph off the cited speed.  Does that make your driving record useless for predicting your insurance costs as well?

Apples and oranges, and you know it.

There are objective ways to determine health that do not fall into a "nice" doctor or a "mean" doctor scenario.

[Grey Fox]

You guys do understand that 90% of Meri's opposition to this is because the BMI is calling her obese? Is the BMI scale was more accurately designed it wouldn't do it & everything would be Super.

[Malthus]

You guys do understand that 90% of Meri's opposition to this is because the BMI is calling her obese? Is the BMI scale was more accurately designed it wouldn't do it & everything would be Super.

I wait with bated breath for Meri to crush you for making your wacky assumptions.

Figuratively, of course. 

[HVC]

You guys do understand that 90% of Meri's opposition to this is because the BMI is calling her obese? Is the BMI scale was more accurately designed it wouldn't do it & everything would be Super.

I wait with bated breath for Meri to crush you for making your wacky assumptions.

Figuratively, of course. 

shhh, you're gonna ruin the show

[DGuller]

Apples and oranges, and you know it.

If I did know it, I wouldn't be making that analogy.  The point that applies to both is that a measure that isn't a perfect predictor is not necessarily a measure that is a completely useless predictor.  It's a fallacy that lay people buy into time after time after time. 

Statistics is not binary mathematics;  in fact, it's completely the opposite.  The answer is almost never 0 or 1, it's always somewhere in the middle.

[Maximus]

It's a really poor predictor when applied to the individual. It works for the insurance company because they are dealing with thousands of people. It sucks for the atypical individual because they are not.

[Grey Fox]

You guys do understand that 90% of Meri's opposition to this is because the BMI is calling her obese? Is the BMI scale was more accurately designed it wouldn't do it & everything would be Super.

I wait with bated breath for Meri to crush you for making your wacky assumptions.

Figuratively, of course. 

That's the only way because in real life, I'm bigger then her.