Did Chick-fil-A Pretend to Be a Teenage Girl on Facebook?

[garbon]

Clearly he is not showing tolerance.  The question is whether he is showing hatred.

That's under the especially - though I don't really think that's under debate either considering the thoughts that same sex marriage is destryoing American (also apparently their charitable group doesn't allow gay un-married couples to their retreats either so it is more than just about marriage). I guess one could play hate the sin and not the sinner.

[Faeelin]

Well, one guy also has religious views on it, and the other doesn't. He's allowed his beliefs; I strongly disagree with that view on gays and God, but for those who follow religions they have to make the choice  one way or the other. When I was more Catholic I didn't believe in everthing, or take things so literally.

I find both your point and Yi's interesting, because the argument seems to be that because it's based on their religious beliefs, it's not actually hateful but a sign of what God wants.

But that can't be right, can it? We'd call a Muslim who thought he should oppress women a bigot even if he genuinely thought God wanted him to do so, wouldn't we? 

[Faeelin]

That's under the especially - though I don't really think that's under debate either considering the thoughts that same sex marriage is destryoing American (also apparently their charitable group doesn't allow gay un-married couples to their retreats either so it is more than just about marriage). I guess one could play hate the sin and not the sinner.

That argument seemed a little weak to me; okay, so everyone boycott groups which donate to the boyscouts. We'll wait.

Edit: I'm also not sure if there's a reason to treat religion differently from any other sincerely held belief.

I went to Little Rock High over the weekend, and there's an interesting exhibit. Plenty of people in the 50s genuinely thought there was nothing wrong with black people, it was just best for everyone if the kids were schooled seperately.

It seems to be that, because they thought they had good intentions, they wouldn't be bigots under your view. No?

[garbon]

That argument seemed a little weak to me

Well agreed because you're really saying I'm fine with you being you as long as you're willing to not be you.

[Martinus]

By these standards, there is very little hatred in the world. For example, German nazis rationalized their goal of exterminating Jews by arguing that they belong to a destructive culture that is actively harming the society. So they did not really "hate" Jews, they just followed the tenets of their ideology.

[garbon]

By these standards, there is very little hatred in the world. For example, German nazis rationalized their goal of exterminating Jews by arguing that they belong to a destructive culture that is actively harming the society. So they did not really "hate" Jews, they just followed the tenets of their ideology.

Get out of here, idiot. Yi's suggestion is that it isn't hatred as (unlike you and your ilk), Don Cathy isn't calling for anyone to die or be ostracized.

[Martinus]

I support diferent sex marriage.

One day this position will be scandalous, with people no longer having children and shit.

I think people will have shit for a long time in the future.

[Martinus]

By these standards, there is very little hatred in the world. For example, German nazis rationalized their goal of exterminating Jews by arguing that they belong to a destructive culture that is actively harming the society. So they did not really "hate" Jews, they just followed the tenets of their ideology.

Get out of here, idiot. Yi's suggestion is that it isn't hatred as (unlike you and your ilk), Don Cathy isn't calling for anyone to die or be ostracized.

Ok I came to this thread late and did not follow the entire thing through - are you sincerely calling me an idiot (so I have to now insult you back) or are you being sarcastic?

[derspiess]

[Admiral Yi]

I find both your point and Yi's interesting, because the argument seems to be that because it's based on their religious beliefs, it's not actually hateful but a sign of what God wants.

But that can't be right, can it? We'd call a Muslim who thought he should oppress women a bigot even if he genuinely thought God wanted him to do so, wouldn't we?

Many times when I've seen the issue portrayed on TV or the movies (I'm thinking in particular about a Law & Order episode on female circumcision) they seem to do a good job of demonstrating the moral conflicts and ambiguities.  Is it possible for a father to cut up his daughter out of good intentions?  I imagine it is.  It's also possible to do it out of bad intentions.  And of course just because the father acts out of good intentions doesn't mean we have to agree with his decision.

[Martinus]

I have no idea what that has to do with what I said.

You're blaming Cathy for his interpretation of God's will, which he has no control over in his own mind.

I don't. You're forcing people to give up their ways and shouldering them with what you think is better for them. Sort of similar to notions of forcing immigrants to give up their language/culture as that'll help improve their situation.

Leaving aside the coercion issue, when else have we seen bigots doing something that they thought was better for their targets?  Did the Nazis try to make Jews better?  Did the Klan try to make blacks better?  Did bigoted Serbs try to make Bosniaks better?

Are you serious? History is full of examples of people committing evil in the name of helping those they were harming. Native children being taken away from their parents to be raised among the civilized folks. Inquisitors torturing heretics so that their souls could be saved. Etc.

[Eddie Teach]

I support diferent sex marriage.

One day this position will be scandalous, with people no longer having children and shit.

I think people will have shit for a long time in the future.

They'll probably stop within a century or so after they stop having children though.

[garbon]

Ok I came to this thread late and did not follow the entire thing through - are you sincerely calling me an idiot (so I have to now insult you back) or are you being arcastic?

Not sarcastic. When you show up with Marti-fail analogies, I'm going to call you out.

[garbon]

I went to Little Rock High over the weekend, and there's an interesting exhibit. Plenty of people in the 50s genuinely thought there was nothing wrong with black people, it was just best for everyone if the kids were schooled seperately.

It seems to be that, because they thought they had good intentions, they wouldn't be bigots under your view. No?

That's the view Yi has been espousing.

[Admiral Yi]

Are you serious? History is full of examples of people committing evil in the name of helping those they were harming. Native children being taken away from their parents to be raised among the civilized folks. Inquisitors torturing heretics so that their souls could be saved. Etc.

Sure (although surely you could have come up with an example with more bite than schooling native children). 

And that's the question on the table: is a goal that you disagree with enough to qualify someone as a bigot, or does it take harmful intentions as well.