The Thurston Mittens the 3rd Veep Megathread

[Sheilbh]

That claim isn't exclusive to Democrats.  You shouldn't forget about independents and reasonable Republicans.

It's spin.  The bond market doesn't give two shits whether defict reduction comes from taxes or spending. 

If you mean that it's not just Democrats that would prefer to cut the deficit through a mix, I don't disagree (although I would argue that Democrats are still more interested in kicking the can down the road).  That's not the same thing as saying Ryan's plan is not "real."  Disagreeing with something doesn't make it unreal.

You're the one who brought in the language of 'real' or not. The bond markets may not care about the composition of fiscal consolidation but they care about its political feasibility and its credibility. On both counts, the Ryan plan fails. So the question is then whether deficit reduction or his view on tax cuts etc matters more. My view is that he's primarily a reformer and that that's the priority, not deficit reduction.

Also from historical examples no significant deficit reduction plan has ever been solely composed of spending cuts. So to use your language of 'real' or not, it may be a real plan, but only in the way fusion's a real energy policy.

[Admiral Yi]

You're the one who brought in the language of 'real' or not. The bond markets may not care about the composition of fiscal consolidation but they care about its political feasibility and its credibility. On both counts, the Ryan plan fails. So the question is then whether deficit reduction or his view on tax cuts etc matters more. My view is that he's primarily a reformer and that that's the priority, not deficit reduction.

Also from historical examples no significant deficit reduction plan has ever been solely composed of spending cuts. So to use your language of 'real' or not, it may be a real plan, but only in the way fusion's a real energy policy.

No I'm not.  It's a term several posters here have used before.  It's not unseen in the media or from Democratic spin doctors.

Look, if political feasibility is a determinant of a plan's "reality," then any deficit reduction is by defintion unreal.

[Sheilbh]

Also I hate the kicking the can down the road thing. The can's already down the bloody road. The major issue for long-term fiscal policy is an ageing society and the associated pension and healthcare costs. The deficit matters far less in the medium to long-term than that, the issue is how to kick the can.

For example the government here's passed pension reform speeding up the increase of pensionable age. It matters not one jot to our current deficit, but does help the long-term debt situation.

[Sheilbh]

No I'm not.  It's a term several posters here have used before.  It's not unseen in the media or from Democratic spin doctors.

Okay but you were talking to me when you brought it up.

Look, if political feasibility is a determinant of a plan's "reality," then any deficit reduction is by defintion unreal.

Nonsense. Your deficit's falling and there are examples in the US of deficit reduction plans happening in the past. There are numerous international examples too. Though, as I say, not one was solely made up of spending cuts.

[Neil]

That claim isn't exclusive to Democrats.  You shouldn't forget about independents and reasonable Republicans.

It's spin.  The bond market doesn't give two shits whether defict reduction comes from taxes or spending. 

If you mean that it's not just Democrats that would prefer to cut the deficit through a mix, I don't disagree (although I would argue that Democrats are still more interested in kicking the can down the road).  That's not the same thing as saying Ryan's plan is not "real."  Disagreeing with something doesn't make it unreal.

I don't think either side is especially eager to deal with the deficit.  Otherwise, they wouldn't be passing around nonsense like the Ryan Plan.

One thing that the bond markets like even better than deficit reduction is political stability.

[CountDeMoney]

My definite favorite Paul Ryan quote today from the rally:  "Our rights come from nature and God, not government."

[Admiral Yi]

Okay but you were talking to me when you brought it up.

OK, fair enough.  There is a small difference between Klein's argument and calling Ryan's plan unreal.

Nonsense. Your deficit's falling and there are examples in the US of deficit reduction plans happening in the past. There are numerous international examples too. Though, as I say, not one was solely made up of spending cuts.

Codswallop.  There is no overlap between what the House Republicans and the Senate Democrats consider acceptable deficit reduction.  You were talking about politically credible.  The fact that Clinton reduced the deficit doesn't change that.

[Razgovory]

My definite favorite Paul Ryan quote today from the rally:  "Our rights come from nature and God, not government."

That's not a bad one.

[Eddie Teach]

My definite favorite Paul Ryan quote today from the rally:  "Our rights come from nature and God, not government."

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

[Admiral Yi]

Seedy falls to friendly fire.

[Sheilbh]

Codswallop.  There is no overlap between what the House Republicans and the Senate Democrats consider acceptable deficit reduction.  You were talking about politically credible.  The fact that Clinton reduced the deficit doesn't change that.

I was talking about politically feasible which is in part about the parties and in part the public, and that it's credible, by which I mean it would reduce the deficit. I think there are policies which could meet both criteria after the election. I don't think a plan that eliminates capital gains and cuts income tax substantially is either.

[Razgovory]

Seedy falls to friendly fire.

I was under the opinion that the concept of "Natural rights" was a central tenet of Common law.

[CountDeMoney]

Seedy falls to friendly fire.

No, I mean I liked it.  What I do find interesting, though, is Ryan's political works just doesn't seem to jive with the concept.

You went to Georgetown, you know where I'm coming from.  YOU TOOK THE SAME FUCKING COURSES  TOO

[Admiral Yi]

I was under the opinion that the concept of "Natural rights" was a central tenet of Common law.

Don't really have an opinion on the matter, but a tip of the hat to you for not just dog-piling Seedy's Ryan bashing.

[Admiral Yi]

I was talking about politically feasible which is in part about the parties and in part the public, and that it's credible, by which I mean it would reduce the deficit. I think there are policies which could meet both criteria after the election. I don't think a plan that eliminates capital gains and cuts income tax substantially is either.

I'm fairly certain it's the second.

Not sure how to respond to your argument about hypothetical future political feasibility.