How can Afghanistan and Iraq maintain their own security?

[Berkut]

Agreed on all counts.  But I think there was a window in 2002 where we could have made an honest effort to do this, and would have seen significant progress on all fronts, enough for it to eventually become self sustaining I think.

The only way Afghanistan can become self-sustaining is if nobody wants to fight over it anymore.

Do the math. It is pretty simple.

[Queequeg]

Afghanistan is hopeless in that regard.

If we hadn't gone into Iraq in the first place and had helped Afghanistan get out of the 7th Century BC it wouldn't be so hopeless.  They are not animals.

Yes they are. Just because Bactria wasn't a total basket case back in the day is not an indicator of future success.

Cut our losses, cluster bomb everybody brown.

Afghans are generally pretty fair skinned. 

[MadImmortalMan]

Opium, of course.

[Ed Anger]

Afghanistan is hopeless in that regard.

If we hadn't gone into Iraq in the first place and had helped Afghanistan get out of the 7th Century BC it wouldn't be so hopeless.  They are not animals.

Yes they are. Just because Bactria wasn't a total basket case back in the day is not an indicator of future success.

Cut our losses, cluster bomb everybody brown.

Afghans are generally pretty fair skinned.

Dirty, dirty people are brown. Bomb them.

[Queequeg]

Agreed on all counts.  But I think there was a window in 2002 where we could have made an honest effort to do this, and would have seen significant progress on all fronts, enough for it to eventually become self sustaining I think.

The only way Afghanistan can become self-sustaining is if nobody wants to fight over it anymore.

[Hyperbole I later regretted, and qualified as no Taliban within Afghanistan besides the borderlands]In 2002 there was no Taliban, no insurgency, no nothing.  Kabulis flocked to barbers and to movie theaters to watch The Terminator.  There was a window. [Hyperbole I later regretted, and qualified as no Taliban within Afghanistan besides the borderlands]

[Queequeg]

Afghanistan is hopeless in that regard.

If we hadn't gone into Iraq in the first place and had helped Afghanistan get out of the 7th Century BC it wouldn't be so hopeless.  They are not animals.

Yes they are. Just because Bactria wasn't a total basket case back in the day is not an indicator of future success.

I was going to argue EXACTLY that.  Honest to God. 

[Berkut]

Agreed on all counts.  But I think there was a window in 2002 where we could have made an honest effort to do this, and would have seen significant progress on all fronts, enough for it to eventually become self sustaining I think.

The only way Afghanistan can become self-sustaining is if nobody wants to fight over it anymore.

In 2002 there was no Taliban, no insurgency, no nothing.  Kabulis flocked to barbers and to movie theaters to watch The Terminator.  There was a window. 

Oh, I see. And we should have swooped in and built them roads and stuff, and then none of this would have happened, I am sure.

No taliban. I suppose they just sprang out of the head of Dick Cheney a few years later.

[Queequeg]

Oh, I see. And we should have swooped in and built them roads and stuff, and then none of this would have happened, I am sure.

We should never have taken our eye off the ball.  Afghans are the toughest motherfuckers in the world; they fucking charged Soviet tank columns on donkeyback; and they liked us!  We should have rebuilt the schools, rebuilt the roads and planted some trees (very few since the end of the Soviet War).  Totally remade the country. 

This place isn't hell.  A lot of is pretty, mountainous, naturally rich.  But if you have 10 years of war with Russia and another 10 of rule by the most retarded religious regime ever and another ten of constant conflict, even New York City or Northern California would start to look Post-Apocalyptic. 

[Queequeg]

No taliban. I suppose they just sprang out of the head of Dick Cheney a few years later.

Waziristan and North-West Frontier Province.  Look it up.

[Ed Anger]

Afghanistan is hopeless in that regard.

If we hadn't gone into Iraq in the first place and had helped Afghanistan get out of the 7th Century BC it wouldn't be so hopeless.  They are not animals.

Yes they are. Just because Bactria wasn't a total basket case back in the day is not an indicator of future success.

I was going to argue EXACTLY that.  Honest to God.

I'm psychic.

[Berkut]

My point has nothing to do with how the place looks, or looked in 2002.

My point is simply that Afghanistan cannot afford the amount of military it needs to maintain its own security. Not now, and not in the near future, and not EVER unless the need side of the equation is reduced a LOT.

What we coulda shoulda done in 2002 has nothing really to do with that. It is trivial to always point back at some time in the past and say "golly, if only we had done everything perfectly right then and with perfect results, why we wouldn't have this mess today!" Whatever.

[Caliga]

I'm psychic.

Dude, it's a safe bet (as in like less than 1:1 odds) that Spellus will always use some ancient comparison in every thread that has no connection to the subject at hand other than a geographic one.

[Berkut]

No taliban. I suppose they just sprang out of the head of Dick Cheney a few years later.

Waziristan and North-West Frontier Province.  Look it up.

Why would I look it up? Is there some article somewhere that will state that in 2002 there was no Taliban anywhere?

If so, how about YOU look it up and share it with us. It isn't my claim, so I don't really care. You are the first person I have ever seen argue that the taliban was completely gone, and then somehow magically re-appeared out of thin air.

[Ed Anger]

I'm psychic.

Dude, it's a safe bet (as in like less than 1:1 odds) that Spellus will always use some ancient comparison in every thread that has no connection to the subject at hand other than a geographic one.

DO NOT TAUNT MY POWERS!

[Berkut]

I'm psychic.

Dude, it's a safe bet (as in like less than 1:1 odds) that Spellus will always use some ancient comparison in every thread that has no connection to the subject at hand other than a geographic one.

So Quee is Spellus?



And I've been arguing with him like he is an actual real person with actual real arguments?



I have: