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Obamacare vs Romneycare

Started by viper37, June 28, 2012, 10:38:16 AM

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DGuller

#45
June 29, 2012, 03:59:49 PM
I think the fact that you can easily change the state of residence is an argument against going overboard with "state rights" as much as it is for.  Let's say one state introduces a single-payer healthcare system.  What's going to happen is that all the sick people from 50 states are going to flock to that one state, and that experiment is going to fail for externality reasons alone.  Likewise, states that relax environmental laws to attract businesses can pollute their more civilized neighbors.

Admiral Yi

#46
June 29, 2012, 04:01:08 PM
What dps said.  Republicans have been extremely cooperative about keeping Gitmo open.

grumbler

#47
June 29, 2012, 07:20:47 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 28, 2012, 04:31:10 PM
I think the Obamacare has some good things in it, but I'm uneasy at the way a Federal entity will trample the State's rights.  But I guess to the Republicans, the idea of State's rights is only valid when it suits them.

If the best argument that you have against PPACA is the myth that states somehow have "rights," I'd say you got nothin'.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Tonitrus

#48
June 29, 2012, 07:32:31 PM Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 07:34:12 PM by Tonitrus
Quote from: DGuller on June 29, 2012, 03:59:49 PM
I think the fact that you can easily change the state of residence is an argument against going overboard with "state rights" as much as it is for.  Let's say one state introduces a single-payer healthcare system.  What's going to happen is that all the sick people from 50 states are going to flock to that one state, and that experiment is going to fail for externality reasons alone.  Likewise, states that relax environmental laws to attract businesses can pollute their more civilized neighbors.


I don't think it as bad as that, and Canada provides a fairly good example:

- Only prove the medical care costs for state residents.  Bill non-residents.
- Have solid requirements for residency to exclude "transient" patients, much like Alaska does for those collecting the PFD (except this would probably need to be stricter for a lower 48 state). 

Razgovory

#49
June 29, 2012, 08:03:47 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 29, 2012, 03:30:34 PM
When are you forced to travel through Texas? :huh:

When I need to go from Louisiana to New Mexico.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Razgovory

#50
June 29, 2012, 08:05:12 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on June 29, 2012, 03:36:24 PM
More importantly, what laws does he expect to run afoul of in Texas that he wouldn't have to deal with in Missouri?

Failure to display a "Don't Mess with Texas" bumper sticker.  Failure to wear giant Texas belt buckle.  Punishable by up to five years imprisonment.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Razgovory

#51
June 29, 2012, 08:22:20 PM
Quote from: dps on June 29, 2012, 03:50:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2012, 08:55:35 PM
You didn't see massive protests about Medicare part D and if I recall correctly Democrats genuinely worked with Bush on his tax cut and no child left behind.

The lousy Medicare "reform" we got and No Child Left Behind are the kind of crap that big-government Democrats tend to like, and why fiscal conservatives didn't care much for Bush.  Heck, Ted Kennedy pretty much wrote No Child Left Behind.

Quick check.  There were 3 Republicans who voted no on NCLB (out of 10) in the Senate, there were a 34 Republicans who voted "no" in the house and 10 Dems who voted "No", in the House

Medicare part D votes in the Senate 5 Republicans voted no (out of a total 44 no votes).  In the house 19 Republicans voted no out of 215 no votes.

So it would appear that this is the kind big government crap that Republicans do like.  If The GOP is the party of fiscal conservatives, then they seemed okay with Bush.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

#52
June 29, 2012, 08:35:49 PM
Do you notice how for a few posts you and dps were talking about Democratic support for NCLB and Medicare Part D, then you switched to discussing Republican support?   That's called a non sequitur Raz.

Razgovory

#53
June 29, 2012, 10:14:13 PM
Did you read what I was responding to?  dps shifted it slightly suggesting that it was really just bills that Democrats (and possibly are secret Democratic initiatives written by the arch devil Ted Kennedy), and not what fiscal conservatives want.  If the GOP is the party of fiscal conservatives (as they loudly proclaim themselves), then my post is a refutation of his suggestions.  I am willing to concede they are not the party of fiscal conservatives, and just use that rhetoric as a political tool to sucker in people.  If so it's just a bland truth and non sequitur and people who buy into Republican claims are fiscal conservatism (such as the Ryan plan), are unwitting dupes.  Your choice.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

#54
June 29, 2012, 10:51:06 PM
Point taken.

Still, not much closure on the previous argument about Democrats and NCLB and Medicare drugs.

Razgovory

#55
June 30, 2012, 01:34:40 AM
You didn't see them dress up like Paul Revere and shit.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

MadImmortalMan

#56
July 02, 2012, 11:04:16 AM
Quick question for the smarties:

AFAIK, the feds can do two kinds of taxes, tariffs and income taxes. Is this one being considered a type of income tax or what?
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

ulmont

#57
July 02, 2012, 11:07:56 AM
Income.  Among other items the amount of the penalty depends on income to start.

MadImmortalMan

#58
July 02, 2012, 11:55:07 AM
Quote from: ulmont on July 02, 2012, 11:07:56 AM
Income.  Among other items the amount of the penalty depends on income to start.


Thought so. Thanks!
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers
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