Barry vs. Bubba

[Caliga]

Mart, you really need to watch some YouTube videos of Dan Quayle.  Dude was hilarious.

[Caliga]

Also, best debate PWNAGE ever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ5CIkSlUFI

[alfred russel]

The only area where Clinton was better was the economy and that was largely because of external circumstances (like, the world not experiencing a global financial crisis). Obama is better on foreign policy, on gay rights (repeal DADT vs. approve DADT and DOMA), and they both fumbled health care reforms. I think Clinton gets viewed through rose-tinted glasses because to Americans in their 20s and 30s he represents the golden age, before Bush, 911, two wars and a global crisis.

Marty, I think you are off on the gay rights issue. Clinton picked up allowing gays to serve in the military when gay rights weren't an issue and didn't have widespread support. DADT was a compromise he signed which significantly liberalized the status quo. The DOMA was brought up by Republicans back when gay marriage was some fringe notion that wasn't taken seriously, and had Clinton vetoed it he would have not only looked out of touch but also probably been overridden anyway.

Views have changed so much since the early and mid 90s that what was very liberal back then is the conservative position now. I think Clinton took more risks against public opinion on gay rights than Obama has.

[alfred russel]

Clinton/Gore pairing was similar to McCain/Palin in that the president was the more senior politician with a bigger centrist appeal, and the veep was younger and radical. On the other hand, Obama/Biden is more like Bush/Cheney, with the charismatic and younger president having a more senior veep whose main role is to advise the president.

I don't think you were into the early 90s intricacies of American politics.

Bill Clinton was seen as an inexperienced politician, a young guy with the main experience of being governor of Arkansas (one of our shittiest states). Gore had more time on the national scene, and as a representative of Tennessee was actually somewhat conservative. With his wife he was a leader in the investigation of dangerous rock music subverting our youth, for instance. He has become a lot more radical after leaving Tennessee and elected politics.

Clinton/Gore was about two young southern (read: not liberal) democrats taking the country back for the common people during the recession.

[The Brain]

John Travolta.

[Sheilbh]

Views have changed so much since the early and mid 90s that what was very liberal back then is the conservative position now. I think Clinton took more risks against public opinion on gay rights than Obama has.

But by trying to push gays in the military (and allowing many Senate Democrats to grandstand on the issue) Clinton arguably caused more harm than good.  DADT never operated as he and Powell said it would and I think had it not been for that fight in the early 90s we wouldn't have had to wait so long for gays in the military.  I think DOMA was a mistake, though you could be right on the politics.

[Martinus]

The only area where Clinton was better was the economy and that was largely because of external circumstances (like, the world not experiencing a global financial crisis). Obama is better on foreign policy, on gay rights (repeal DADT vs. approve DADT and DOMA), and they both fumbled health care reforms. I think Clinton gets viewed through rose-tinted glasses because to Americans in their 20s and 30s he represents the golden age, before Bush, 911, two wars and a global crisis.

Marty, I think you are off on the gay rights issue. Clinton picked up allowing gays to serve in the military when gay rights weren't an issue and didn't have widespread support. DADT was a compromise he signed which significantly liberalized the status quo. The DOMA was brought up by Republicans back when gay marriage was some fringe notion that wasn't taken seriously, and had Clinton vetoed it he would have not only looked out of touch but also probably been overridden anyway.

Views have changed so much since the early and mid 90s that what was very liberal back then is the conservative position now. I think Clinton took more risks against public opinion on gay rights than Obama has.

Could be that you are right, but I heard/read this characterisation from a lot of US gays, including ones older than me.

Admittedly, as Jon Stewart pointed out, the fact that, when Obama today takes a stand in favour of gay marriage, all that Fox News pundits can do is to accuse him of taking a popular stance and playing it to the public, just goes to show how immense the progress made over the last 10 (not to mention 20) years is.

And it's even greater in countries like Poland where we are catching up quickly.

Frankly, I can't think of a single social/equality issue in the Western history that made such huge popularity gains in such a short time. Even women and blacks took decades to get to the point of equality.

[CountDeMoney]

Frankly, I can't think of a single social/equality issue in the Western history that made such huge popularity gains in such a short time. Even women and blacks took decades to get to the point of equality.

That's because homosexuality--unlike being black or female--is a characteristic that that's always been around the political arena.  Plenty of white guys in government have been cocknibblers.

Besides, hysterical latent homosexual preachers and politicians aside, sexuality has always been considered a privacy issue.  You can hide the fact you're a pillowbiter--you can't hide being Shirley Chisholm. 

[Neil]

Frankly, I can't think of a single social/equality issue in the Western history that made such huge popularity gains in such a short time. Even women and blacks took decades to get to the point of equality.

Don't worry.  You'll never really be equal.  You'll be like the guy with those big rings that stretch out his earlobes:  Maybe an equal in the eyes of the law, but not really.  And when the law disappears, so will he.

[garbon]

I can't really believe Marti.

[Sheilbh]

Shirley Chisholm

[CountDeMoney]

Interesting factoid that was just on The Daily Run Down:  First US president born in a hospital?  Jimmy Carter, 1924.

[Grey Fox]

Seems right.

[Eddie Teach]

Frankly, I can't think of a single social/equality issue in the Western history that made such huge popularity gains in such a short time. Even women and blacks took decades to get to the point of equality.

That's because those efforts did most of the work for you.

[Viking]

I can't really believe Marti.

No he won't [take it up the ass] ?