Barry vs. Bubba

[Sheilbh]

I'd say Obama is a better campaigner than Clinton, but Clinton is way better a politician once he's in office.

Obama passed healthcare reform which is huge and he's had a far, far more successful foreign policy in his first term - in more challenging times too.

[CountDeMoney]

Obama passed healthcare reform which is huge and he's had a far, far more successful foreign policy in his first term - in more challenging times too.

I'm not sure I'd categorize it as "more challenging times" than Bubba's first term; Clinton had the unfortunate task of attempting to redefine what precisely America's foreign policy meta strategy would be in the post-Cold War era when there was really no consensus on either side of the aisle; the rampdown from GW1 and Iraqi containment (Northern Watch/Southern Watch/Desert Fox), the pressure of swords-into-plowshares from Congress, the immediate NATO mission so soon after the wall, and Boris Yeltsin.  It took a lot time for Clinton to redefine what exactly it was going to be, which led to a lot of false starts and bad steps.  Humanitarian-based interventionism? A dedicated global mission of economic freedom of the seas? It never truly seemed to gel.

Obama, on the other hand, had inherited a very specific (albeit substantially more hostile) foreign policy mission with 3 wars: Iraq, Afghanistan and GWOT that at least had established templates to follow.

Clinton's foreign policy concerns were unenviable as far as Presidencies go.

[derspiess]

Obama could adjust his strategy in a dozen different ways, the fact of the matter is he's never going to accomplish anything with a House whose public stated goal is to make him a one-term President.  They will never let him accomplish anything, regardless how he comes at them. 

If that were true (it's not, at least not to the extent that you believe it), the smart thing would be for Obama to try the Clinton approach, which would force the evil GOP to vote against their own agenda. 

Too bad Obama's own narcissism clouds his political judgment.  Clinton was a narcissist as well, but a smart enough politician to not always believe his own BS.

Obama's good and can energize a crowd, but I think your memory's a little hazy on exactly how much of a rock star status Bubba truly had at his rallies.

Sure, he did fine with the soccer moms & whatnot.  But nowhere near the messianic presence Obama had at his rallies.  And of course Obama actually convinced a majority of voters to vote for him.

[CountDeMoney]

But nowhere near the messianic presence Obama had at his rallies.

It's not, at least not to the extent that you believe it. 

[Sheilbh]

Obama, on the other hand, had inherited a very specific (albeit substantially more hostile) foreign policy mission with 3 wars: Iraq, Afghanistan and GWOT that at least had established templates to follow.

Iraq, Afghanistan and the GWOT (and Iran) are the obvious ones.  I think Obama's also had to deal with the more long-term systemic problems like Europe, rising China and the Arab uprisings.  So far I think he's been pretty good on both fronts.

If that were true (it's not, at least not to the extent that you believe it), the smart thing would be for Obama to try the Clinton approach, which would force the evil GOP to vote against their own agenda. 

Broadly I agree.  But on specifics, I think their agendas moved.  I mean Obamacare is broadly very similar to Republican proposals in the 90s.

[Valmy]

And of course Obama actually convinced a majority of voters to vote for him.

Well he does score points for promising to do a bunch of things that he not only did not do, not too unexpected, but immediately went out and did exactly the opposite...which was suprising even for a politician.

[derspiess]

But nowhere near the messianic presence Obama had at his rallies.

It's not, at least not to the extent that you believe it. 

I think you missed some of it due to your momentary bout of Hillarism.

[CountDeMoney]

But nowhere near the messianic presence Obama had at his rallies.

It's not, at least not to the extent that you believe it. 

I think you missed some of it due to your momentary bout of Hillarism.

 

[derspiess]

Broadly I agree.  But on specifics, I think their agendas moved.  I mean Obamacare is broadly very similar to Republican proposals in the 90s.

That Chafee bill is about as relevant as other half-assed legislation the GOP proposed in the 80s or 70s or 60s.

[garbon]

Obama passed healthcare reform which is huge

I don't know, not with what we got and its legal status in question.

[DGuller]

Obama could adjust his strategy in a dozen different ways, the fact of the matter is he's never going to accomplish anything with a House whose public stated goal is to make him a one-term President.  They will never let him accomplish anything, regardless how he comes at them. 

If that were true (it's not, at least not to the extent that you believe it), the smart thing would be for Obama to try the Clinton approach, which would force the evil GOP to vote against their own agenda. 

Too bad Obama's own narcissism clouds his political judgment.  Clinton was a narcissist as well, but a smart enough politician to not always believe his own BS.

Obama's good and can energize a crowd, but I think your memory's a little hazy on exactly how much of a rock star status Bubba truly had at his rallies.

Sure, he did fine with the soccer moms & whatnot.  But nowhere near the messianic presence Obama had at his rallies.  And of course Obama actually convinced a majority of voters to vote for him.

I think you missed a couple of Fox News talking points in here.  You're quickly becoming a toilet for the all the shit Republican strategists squeeze out.

[Barrister]

I think you missed a couple of Fox News talking points in here.  You're quickly becoming a toilet for the all the shit Republican strategists squeeze out.

Do you really think a post like that contributes to any kind of meaningful discussion?

[garbon]

I think you missed a couple of Fox News talking points in here.  You're quickly becoming a toilet for the all the shit Republican strategists squeeze out.

Do you really think a post like that contributes to any kind of meaningful discussion?

I'm guessing that was his point.

[Valmy]

I think you missed a couple of Fox News talking points in here.  You're quickly becoming a toilet for the all the shit Republican strategists squeeze out.

Siege, on the other hand, thinks we are all becoming super liberals.  There is just no pleasing anybody.

[derspiess]

I think you missed a couple of Fox News talking points in here.  You're quickly becoming a toilet for the all the shit Republican strategists squeeze out.

  Just trying to point out how Clinton was a much better president than Obama is.