I for one welcome our new European Overlords

[Sheilbh]

I find that extremely hard to believe, unless the sample is made up entirely of islamists.

It depends who you define as Islamists.  The AKP government's made more progress than any other Turkish government since they started seeking accession.

The problem is disillusionment with the EU, we need to let them know that we want them in the Union, when they meet the set criteria.  Also I think Turkey's far larger population of hard-core secularists are more of a problem than the Islamists.  They are unhappy with the EU seeming to side with the Islamist government instead of the secular army and they are, overwhelmingly, very nationalist who don't like EU policy on protecting minority rights or changing the Turkish constitution to allow far freer speech.

[Josquius]

With Turkey not being allowed in and Iceland fast tracked a relevant argument that can be made: Cut off the rich part of Istanbul then it (the part, inte Turkey) can join no problems (it being of the same population size as Iceland and relativly rich)

[ulmont]

Anyway, I am not particularly knowledgable about Turkish politics, but according to Tunch Khan on Paradox, most Turks and even the elites don't even want to join the EU anymore.

I find that extremely hard to believe, unless the sample is made up entirely of islamists.

Well, you never know, being told to go fuck yourselves for 22 years could be a little annoying.

(Yes, I know, 16 for EU, but Turkey applied for the EEC before that).

[Berkut]

Also I think Turkey's far larger population of hard-core secularists are more of a problem than the Islamists.  They are unhappy with the EU seeming to side with the Islamist government instead of the secular army and they are, overwhelmingly, very nationalist who don't like EU policy on protecting minority rights or changing the Turkish constitution to allow far freer speech.

Damn those "hardcore" secularists!

[Iormlund]

Damn those "hardcore" secularists!

Secularism as you point out is hardly the problem*, but in Turkey it goes by the hand with nationalism, which is a huge obstacle with it comes to accession (Kurds, Cyprus, Freedom of Speech and Kemal Attatürk, and so on).

* Except when it comes to military influence, which is also something the EU is wary off.

[Iormlund]

Well, you never know, being told to go fuck yourselves for 22 years could be a little annoying.

(Yes, I know, 16 for EU, but Turkey applied for the EEC before that).

They've been told to fuck themselves for so long because they've never complied with the conditions. And since the EU is not static, those conditions are actually growing faster than Turkey is able to meet them.

[Josquius]

Attatürk worship is very freaky. I couldn't imagine typical westerners doing the same to that extent for Churchill or FDR or whoever.

[ulmont]

Iormlund, can you fix your quotes in your post above?

[Siege]

The Lisbon Treaty would make the EU into a real superpower.

We need to stop this.

[saskganesh]

If Iceland joins, you'll have to stop whaling.

That's a plus. :rainbowwarrior:

[Delirium]

Also I think Turkey's far larger population of hard-core secularists are more of a problem than the Islamists.  They are unhappy with the EU seeming to side with the Islamist government instead of the secular army and they are, overwhelmingly, very nationalist who don't like EU policy on protecting minority rights or changing the Turkish constitution to allow far freer speech.

So basically they are like any ultra-nationalists in existing EU countries only that they live in a country where their oppressive ideas have come to fruition already?

[Siege]

You can't seriously believe that Turkey is an european country, or have anything in common with western culture.

[Valmy]

The Lisbon Treaty would make the EU into a real superpower.

We need to stop this.

The EU has no desire to be a super power.  The European people would never want to field the sort of armed forces necessary.  That and the Lisbon treaty doesn't really do anything drastic to its structure.

[The Brain]

We should create a huge colon sanitaire in Eastern Europe to keep the hordes out.

[Sheilbh]

Damn those "hardcore" secularists!

Yeah.  They're the ones who support the army trying to overthrow a democratically elected government because they nominate a President whose wife wears a headscarf.  They're also, overwhelmingly, the ones who oppose any rights to the Kurds (again with the army backing them) and who dislike the idea of allowing free speech that 'denigrates' the Turkish Republic.  So, for example, the Armenian genocide's off-limits, so is certain criticism of the military, or acknowledging known facts about Ataturk's life.

As I say the mildly Islamist AKP government has done more to bring Turkey in line with EU standards than any previous (by definition) secular government.  I'd say they've almost done more than all previous governments put together since the EU was the EEC.  The sad thing is that Turkey's growing disillusioned over entry at all and, as I say, they should be reassured that as soon as they're ready (ie. they meet the Copenhagen criteria) they can join.

But we should repeat the mistakes of the Balkan states, Cyprus or Romania.  Not one of the fully deserved entry.