UEFA Euro 2012 Poland-Ukraine: Germans Glowing with Anticipation

[Jacob]

Of course, we should point out that only after WW2 (and I should say from 1954 to 1998), the World Cup truly was the greatest competition in the world, considered as thus by everyone. Of course, this doesn't diminish the four wins of Italy and Uruguay, just places in perspective the influence of the game during the Cold War, after the establishment of the continental competitions for both club and country. After 1998, the World Cup lost its appeal while the Champions League took its torch towards higher ground.

Really? You rate the Champions League above the World Cup? Is that a widespread opinion?

[The Larch]

Of course, we should point out that only after WW2 (and I should say from 1954 to 1998), the World Cup truly was the greatest competition in the world, considered as thus by everyone. Of course, this doesn't diminish the four wins of Italy and Uruguay, just places in perspective the influence of the game during the Cold War, after the establishment of the continental competitions for both club and country. After 1998, the World Cup lost its appeal while the Champions League took its torch towards higher ground.

Really? You rate the Champions League above the World Cup? Is that a widespread opinion?

No, it's not. They're totally different competitions.

Btw, it seems that Shevchenko won't be starting for Ukraine. I'd say that they're done if he can't play.

[Alexandru H.]

Of course. And it's very easy to see why.

In the 90's, several factors helped to cement the CL as the greatest competition in the world:

a) Bosman law
b) The destruction of the old internal rules concerning foreign footballers (in the 90's, Spain dropped the old rule of having just 3 foreigners in their starting 11, for example)
c) Explosion of mass-media and TV football deals.
d) More money meant higher salaries and transfer fees
e) Mobile phones/internet were great help in the scouting process. Especially in Africa.
f) Players began to depend too much on the money received from the club and prefered to use his national team time to "slide" through. A great example is Giggs, a potent and reliable footballer who chose not to play friendlies for Wales for 6 years in the row, I think. There are other examples, of course: Ronaldo's club level wasn't translated at national level, Messi was criticized for his commitment to the Argentinian cause, the great English generation of the last 10 years was a dissapointment at WC and EC level etc...

In this moment, 99% of all great footballers in the world play in European championships (Brazil and Argentina keep several of them, as trophyes). The best of them were bought by the best clubs in Europe, that also play in the Champions League. The level of competition is tremendous: Barcelona has a squad of half of the world/euro champions plus the best player in the world plus starters for France, Brazil, Argentina or Holland. Real Madrid has the second best player plus Portuguese, Spanish, Brazilians, Argentinians and French players that are assured of their place in the main squad of their home country. Take Chelsea, United, Juventus or Bayern... same cases.

The level of play in the last World Cups was abysmal, to be frank. Take 2010 or 2002, classic examples of boring football. The last interesting one was 1998, but in my opinion it was its swan song. After playing 50+ games in a season, a great player simply drifts through the competition...

[FunkMonk]

I looked this up because I saw it (probably on languish) referenced in the news before, but a study done found that:

researchers at the Los Alamos National Laboratory have found that soccer is the most unpredictable sport, as it more likely that a team with a worse record can defeat a team with a better record. The researchers looked at the results of over 300,000 soccer, baseball, basketball, hockey and football games, and found that the likelihood for an upset was greatest in soccer.

http://www.sciencebuzz.org/blog/soccer-most-exciting-sport-watch

[it has a link to the study]

I stand by the idea that goals need to be bigger or some other modest innovation to up scoring (such as one less man per side, goalkeepers can only use one hand, 2 point shots from outside the box, players can pick the ball up and throw it to each other, etc).

A real question I have: are there less red cards / penalty shots because the referees aren't idiots from Trinidad and Tobago picked to add geographical diversity, European football just tolerates rough and tumble play more, or these tend to be higher quality sides that don't do stupid things to result in red cards and penalties?

Would increasing goals scored really make the game that much more exciting, though? There are games that end 1-1 or 1-0 that are really quite good and exciting not because of the number of goals scored but because of the quality of play and the natural tension between teams in the match. For an American comparison, look at the defensively-minded teams in the SEC, where scores like 6-3 or 9-6 can be common.

Personally I really enjoy watching soccer games with scores like 5-3 or 6-1, but if such scores become more prevalent overall it could cheapen the thrill. Scoring in soccer is one of the hardest things to do in sports if your opponent is of good quality. I wouldn't mind seeing the laws of the game changed to better the game overall, but changing them to increase scoring just for the score's sake doesn't seem like a good enough reason. What does it really fix?

[alfred russel]

Would increasing goals scored really make the game that much more exciting, though? There are games that end 1-1 or 1-0 that are really quite good and exciting not because of the number of goals scored but because of the quality of play and the natural tension between teams in the match.

I wasn't arguing for more scoring to increase excitement, but rather to reduce the randomness of outcomes.

For those of us at work, which sides look stronger at the half? How is Wayne Rooney's hair holding up?

[Zanza]

How is Wayne Rooney's hair holding up?

His hair just scored the first goal for Engerland.

[Jacob]

I wasn't arguing for more scoring to increase excitement, but rather to reduce the randomness of outcomes.

Why would you want that?

[Jacob]

Of course. And it's very easy to see why.
...
The level of play in the last World Cups was abysmal, to be frank. Take 2010 or 2002, classic examples of boring football. The last interesting one was 1998, but in my opinion it was its swan song. After playing 50+ games in a season, a great player simply drifts through the competition...

I wasn't wondering about the reason, I was wondering how widespread the notion was. Who else agrees with you (other than possibly the CL's marketing department)?

[Alexandru H.]

I should hope there are plenty of knowledgeable people that agree with me. Take 2010 and tell me what part was so amazing that it put CL to shame? Aside from controversies, of course...

[DGuller]

I wasn't arguing for more scoring to increase excitement, but rather to reduce the randomness of outcomes.

Why would you want that?

There is always a balance to be struck in such matters.  You don't want no luck at all, because you may as well not bother watching.  You don't want it to be all luck either, because watching a coin flip is not a captivating spectator sport, and the winner of sporting events needs some legitimacy.  Obviously you want the balance to be somewhere between those extremes.

[Ed Anger]

I see Carroll got in for 10 minutes, just to clip clop around and run over a few Ukes. HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

There, I watched this one. happy now?

[Octavian]

The French team cost me a lot a money today.

The Spanish, Italians and the English did their part but the Frenchmens inability to defeat Team Ibrahimovic shall not be forgotten!

The have made a powerful enemy!

[Jacob]

I should hope there are plenty of knowledgeable people that agree with me. Take 2010 and tell me what part was so amazing that it put CL to shame? Aside from controversies, of course...

Nothing is putting the CL to shame, but it's two entirely different things.

In the World Cup, teams representing most of the nations in the world compete to qualify. For some countries it's about how they do in the qualifying rounds, for others it's about qualifying for the first time, for some it's about making it out of the group stage and for others again it's about winning or at least placing well. But pretty much every person on the planet is represented somehow when it comes to the world cup. Even when your team doesn't qualify, the spectacle matters because next time your team might... and you can still care based on how you feel about different countries (assuming you care at all).

The Champions League may have better games in terms of the skill level of the teams and it's definitely exciting. It's probably more lucrative for the players and coaches as well, but in terms of the emotional investment nothing beats the World Cup. No shame in that.

[Liep]

Nothing is putting the CL to shame, but it's two entirely different things.

In the World Cup, teams representing most of the nations in the world compete to qualify. For some countries it's about how they do in the qualifying rounds, for others it's about qualifying for the first time, for some it's about making it out of the group stage and for others again it's about winning or at least placing well. But pretty much every person on the planet is represented somehow when it comes to the world cup. Even when your team doesn't qualify, the spectacle matters because next time your team might... and you can still care based on how you feel about different countries (assuming you care at all).

The Champions League may have better games in terms of the skill level of the teams and it's definitely exciting. It's probably more lucrative for the players and coaches as well, but in terms of the emotional investment nothing beats the World Cup. No shame in that.

This is true.

[Grey Fox]

International competitions are for the casual fans like me.

I watch the WC and the Euro. I will not watch any games of the CL, it has no appeal to me.