Should voters be required to show photo ID?

[HVC]

So what's wrong with waltzing in, saying who you are and at what address, they tick you off their voter roll/registration and you go and cast your ballot ? 

Nothing, but OTOH, I'd hate to show up to vote and not be allowed to because someone else showed up earlier claiming to be me and being told I'd already voted when I know that I hadn't.

But that is fixed by simply requiring that people bring their voter registration card.  You hand that to the nice old lady who takes your card, ticks off your name and hands you a ballot.

No fuss no muss.

kill two birds with one stone, make voter id card photo id cards.

[dps]

So what's wrong with waltzing in, saying who you are and at what address, they tick you off their voter roll/registration and you go and cast your ballot ? 

Nothing, but OTOH, I'd hate to show up to vote and not be allowed to because someone else showed up earlier claiming to be me and being told I'd already voted when I know that I hadn't.

But that is fixed by simply requiring that people bring their voter registration card.  You hand that to the nice old lady who takes your card, ticks off your name and hands you a ballot.

No fuss no muss.

Sure, unless someone has lifted my wallet.  Then they'd have my voter registration card.  Of course, they'd have my photo ID, too, but that wouldn't help them unless they happen to look like me.

In general, though, I do agree that having to show photo ID in order to vote is probably overkill.  If you're going to vote fraudulantly, showing up at the polling place before one of your neighbors and claiming to be them isn't the way to go.

[CountDeMoney]

There's a difference between voter fraud and election misconduct.

Please elaborate.

Voter fraud is committed by minorities without Photo ID, and election misconduct is committed by GOP political contributors that provided electronic voting machines to 37 states in 2004.

[Solmyr]

We don't like voter fraud.  Didn't know that was such a partisan position to take.

There's always a balance to be struck between adding enough security to prevent fraud and causing needless hassle for voters.  I think the more hassle you add the more evidence you need that there's a fraud problem that it fixes.  Otherwise you're, at best, fixing something that ain't broken.

A Continental style national ID card would get around this though.  It could have all the information you wanted (address, citizenship and more) and would be compulsory to have and to carry so it wouldn't cause any extra cost or hassle to the voter.

I'm guessing this is a cultural issue. Over here, pretty much everyone has a photo id, be it a passport, a driver's license, a social security card with a photo, or the like. So showing it is no hassle at all. It's also required to withdraw money from your bank account, for example (at the bank office, not from ATMs).

[Razgovory]

There's a difference between voter fraud and election misconduct.

Please elaborate.

Election misconduct covers a lot of action one of which includes voter fraud.

[crazy canuck]

I'm guessing this is a cultural issue. Over here, pretty much everyone has a photo id, be it a passport, a driver's license, a social security card with a photo, or the like. So showing it is no hassle at all. It's also required to withdraw money from your bank account, for example (at the bank office, not from ATMs).

Yeah, that is really the point.  This sure looks like it is aimed at people who wont likely have such identification.

[derspiess]

I'm guessing this is a cultural issue. Over here, pretty much everyone has a photo id, be it a passport, a driver's license, a social security card with a photo, or the like. So showing it is no hassle at all. It's also required to withdraw money from your bank account, for example (at the bank office, not from ATMs).

Yeah, that is really the point.  This sure looks like it is aimed at people who wont likely have such identification.

It's not as if you have no recourse under these laws if you lack a photo ID.  They still allow the ID-less voter a chance to cast a provisional ballot.  In some cases, they just have to sign an affidavit and you get a regular ballot.

[Berkut]

I'm guessing this is a cultural issue. Over here, pretty much everyone has a photo id, be it a passport, a driver's license, a social security card with a photo, or the like. So showing it is no hassle at all. It's also required to withdraw money from your bank account, for example (at the bank office, not from ATMs).

Yeah, that is really the point.  This sure looks like it is aimed at people who wont likely have such identification.

It's not as if you have no recourse under these laws if you lack a photo ID.  They still allow the ID-less voter a chance to cast a provisional ballot.  In some cases, they just have to sign an affidavit and you get a regular ballot.

That isn't the point though.

Since there is no problem these laws area actually purported to adress, it is clear their intent is something else - and that is to disnefranchise otherwise valid voters via making it harder for them to vote.

I don't care if there is some "recourse". The point of these laws seems to be to discourage some people who are otherwise valid voters from voting.

What is reprehensible about stuff like this is that it is fundamentally an attack on democracy itself. Supporting these kinds of laws when it is clear that the intent has nothing to do with voter fraud is supporting the attempt to get people to stop voting because they don't tend to vote in the manner you like.

[crazy canuck]

It's not as if you have no recourse under these laws if you lack a photo ID.  They still allow the ID-less voter a chance to cast a provisional ballot.  In some cases, they just have to sign an affidavit and you get a regular ballot.

So tell me again why you want voter ID?

On the affidavit issue, there are a number of complications I can see.

First the person has to be able to read the document.  Then they have to understand the document.  Then, if your professional obligations are anything like ours, the person hearing the depondant swearing the affidavit has to satisfy themselves that the person is who they claim to be (usually by taking some form of ID....) and for all that to happen there actually has to be someone at the polling station that can deal with all that.


See any problems with that system or how it might disadvantage some groups and not others?

[crazy canuck]

What is reprehensible about stuff like this is that it is fundamentally an attack on democracy itself. Supporting these kinds of laws when it is clear that the intent has nothing to do with voter fraud is supporting the attempt to get people to stop voting because they don't tend to vote in the manner you like.

Yep, that is it exactly.

[Jacob]

See any problems with that system or how it might disadvantage some groups and not others?

I think derSpiess can see how it might disadvantage some groups and not others, but not how that's a problem.

[Admiral Yi]

That isn't the point though.

Since there is no problem these laws area actually purported to adress, it is clear their intent is something else - and that is to disnefranchise otherwise valid voters via making it harder for them to vote.

I don't care if there is some "recourse". The point of these laws seems to be to discourage some people who are otherwise valid voters from voting.

What is reprehensible about stuff like this is that it is fundamentally an attack on democracy itself. Supporting these kinds of laws when it is clear that the intent has nothing to do with voter fraud is supporting the attempt to get people to stop voting because they don't tend to vote in the manner you like.

I think there are reasonable arguments on both sides, but when you start saying there is no problem and the intent is clearly to disenfranchise valid voters you go way too far.

How easy is it to catch an illegal voter?  My guess is it's not easy at all.

How difficult is it for a valid voter to obtain ID?  Trivially easy.

[crazy canuck]

How difficult is it for a valid voter to obtain ID?  Trivially easy.

Really Yi, how can you be so certain.

Where does when obtain such an ID, do they have the ID offices every few blocks so that one does not need to drive to obtain one or are they just trivially easy for those who are able to drive to such a location during business hours and produce the necessary documentation to obtain one.  Yes that is trivially easy for you and I but then again the law isnt really targeted at people like us is it.

[Admiral Yi]

At the DMV.

[Razgovory]

To get my photo ID I had to take a written test and then another one where I paralleled parked.