Trayvon Martin case: use of Stand Your Ground law or pursuit of a black teen?

[Sheilbh]

Before some of the more recent stuff came out about Trayvon, I found it less likely that he acted aggressively.  Knowing what we now know about his character/personality (which, Shielbh, I don't think is limited to simply being "a teenager with a Twitter account"), I find it more likely that Trayvon acted aggressively in some way towards Zimmerman.  Whether Trayvon was provked in any way, I don't know. 

What do you mean by what we know about his character/personality that's beyond being a boastful kid on social media?

Maybe it would be nice to wait for more actual details of the incident before we make up our minds as to what the hell happened.

My opinion's based on the confirmed facts.
Zimmerman followed Martin in his truck.
He got out and followed him on foot.  At this point in my opinion a 17 year old kid being followed by an older man has legitimate fears and it's reasonable for them to try and get out of there.  I mean imagine if it was a girl being followed.  Or if Zimmerman was likely to be a pedarest, say he wore a dogcollar and crucifix.
There's then a fight of some sort, there's different accounts.  Some have said Martin repeatedly slamming Zimmerman's head into the ground, the 911 tape and some witnesses apparently have a shot being fired in an altercation and someone pleading.  But, in my view, as I say, I think by following someone Zimmerman's started a confrontation and the law should protect the person who's trying to get away from him.
Zimmerman shoots Martin.

Based on those facts I think there should be a full investigation - not this sham that seemed to have happened so far. 

But if there is an investigation and Zimmerman is in the wrong but can't be prosecuted because of this law then, in my opinion, the law's wrong and Florida should move to letting juries decide what's reasonable self-defence.  As I say, on the facts that we have, in my view Martin should be the one who's legally protected to get away from the guy who's following him using a reasonable amount of force.

The fact that Martin smoked pot and posted stuff on Twitter doesn't alter that one bit.

[Jacob]

@ Yi: Yeah... maybe those potheads also used a lot of coke, so maybe you're right.

[Sheilbh]

I dunno... I've found that long term pot users tend to be mellow most of the time, but when they fly off the handle they do so more intensely than average.

But I doubt a 17 year old has smoked enough pot to get to that point.

And based on what we know of Zimmerman's behaviour that night it's enough to see someone really spinning out over it.  But I don't know if Martin had smoked that night and, as you say, I doubt he'd reached that point.

[derspiess]

Knowing what we now know about his character/personality (which, Shielbh, I don't think is limited to simply being "a teenager with a Twitter account"), I find it more likely that Trayvon acted aggressively in some way towards Zimmerman. 

I don't.  Smoking ganja doesn't incline one to aggression or violence.  More like the opposite in my experience.

I guess we should increase the supply to inner-city gangbangers, then.  Because apparently they're not getting enough of it.

[Admiral Yi]

I guess we should increase the supply to inner-city gangbangers, then.  Because apparently they're not getting enough of it.

Hear hear.

[Jacob]

I dunno... I've found that long term pot users tend to be mellow most of the time, but when they fly off the handle they do so more intensely than average.

But I doubt a 17 year old has smoked enough pot to get to that point.

And based on what we know of Zimmerman's behaviour that night it's enough to see someone really spinning out over it.  But I don't know if Martin had smoked that night and, as you say, I doubt he'd reached that point.

I basically completely agree with your view of what's important in this case, as you set out in your previous post.

The whole "are potheads peaceful or not" thing isn't really related to this case from my POV, it's just a side tangent. The "chronic potheads are not that mellow" observation is a long term thing that has little to do with whether the person in question has recently smoked pot, it's more an observation that people who are chronic pot smokers tend to be less patient and occasionally prone to angry outbursts later in life (like after decades of use) and is not related to whether they've smoked up recently or not... and it's an anecdotal observation to boot

[CountDeMoney]

Yeah.  As I say he's a teenager with Twitter.  If you looked at my 17 year old nephew's Facebook you'd have the same.

Oh Sarah Palin's future son-in-law.  IMMA FUCKIN REDNECK ILL KILL YOU

[CountDeMoney]

Or if Zimmerman was likely to be a pedarest, say he wore a dogcollar and crucifix.

OCN!

[CountDeMoney]

I dunno... I've found that long term pot users tend to be mellow most of the time, but when they fly off the handle they do so more intensely than average.

But I doubt a 17 year old has smoked enough pot to get to that point.

And based on what we know of Zimmerman's behaviour that night it's enough to see someone really spinning out over it.  But I don't know if Martin had smoked that night and, as you say, I doubt he'd reached that point.

The evidence is plain:  Skittles and iced tea.  He obviously had not ingested any marijuana that evening.

[katmai]

The evidence is plain:  Skittles and iced tea.

So it was a sugar high rampage that made Zimmerman act in self defense.

[CountDeMoney]

The evidence is plain:  Skittles and iced tea.

So it was a sugar high rampage that made Zimmerman act in self defense.

This shooting would've been righteous if only Mentos were involved.

[Sheilbh]

The evidence is plain:  Skittles and iced tea.  He obviously had not ingested any marijuana that evening.

True enough.  No Cheetos

[Razgovory]

I believe they said that corner's report found no drugs in the kid's system.  I still fail to see why these suspensions are relevant.  They can't damage the credibility of Martin's story since he has no story.  He's dead.  The kid had a screw driver ( I have one in my desk right next to me), he also was found with a bag that might have had marijuana in it.  Neither of these indicate a tendency to sneak up behind people and punch them.  Is there something I'm missing here?

[CountDeMoney]

I believe they said that corner's report found no drugs found in the kid's system.  I still fail to see why these suspensions are relevant.  They can't damage the credibility of Martin's story since he has no story.  He's dead.  The kid had a screw driver ( I have one in my desk right next to me), he also was found with a bag that might have had marijuana in it.  Neither of these indicate a tendency to sneak up behind people and punch them.  Is there something I'm missing here?

Yup.

[jimmy olsen]

Video of Zimmerman at the police station in the aftermath of the shooting. Don't look like he's been in a fight to me.

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-last-word/46887730/#46887730