Graduate Degress: Are they worth it?

[Ideologue]

I agree with everything you said above except I think you're overlooking how important student loans have been viz. the roll-out of master's programs; I certainly agree, however, that once that money was left on the table, it was colleges' desire for money and the things money can buy that created the inexorable bubble phenomenon in terms of continuing (and undergrad) education, even if the demands of above-average students who wished to differentiate or enhance themselves is what gave it its initial impetus.  The outcome has been, as you say, significantly greater educational expenditure and debt, with no significant benefits for students or society.*

*Although arguably the undergrad experience is an effective means of social control.  I have no figures, only a suspicion, but I imagine that giving young men money to dick around for four years, and maybe learning something during them, reduces a lot of the risk otherwise associated with that demographic, even if it often does not make them substantially more employable, and wonder if that's part of the reason violent crime has declined in the past few decades.

It should be treated as its own unique thing - a professional degree. 

So of no value outside of the narrow confines of the law?  Think carefully about your answer, because there are about 20,000 J.D.s per year (and have been for about a decade) who do not and shall not work, or engage in significant work, within the legal field...

[CountDeMoney]

At Hopkins, we always gave the Brits and Indians the option of putting 'MD' on their ID badges, because so many people didn't know what an MBBS was over here, and it would often confuse them.

WHADDYA MEAN HES JUST GOT TWO BACHELORS DEGREES

[Barrister]

It should be treated as its own unique thing - a professional degree. 

So of no value outside of the narrow confines of the law?  Think carefully about your answer, because there are about 20,000 J.D.s per year (and have been for about a decade) who do not and shall not work, or engage in significant work, within the legal field...

As you are finding, a law degree is of fairly limited value outside of the practice of law.

By the way, have I yet mentioned the fact that many Canadian schools are switching from the LL.B. to the J.D. is a major pet peeve of mine?

[Zanza]

How would you call someone with a PhD in law? That's what we call a "doctor juris" here.

[Ideologue]

How would you call someone with a PhD in law? That's what we call a "doctor juris" here.

The terminal degree in law is the S.J.D. (scientiae juridicae doctor).

[Ideologue]

Here's a wrinkle.  Obviously a lot of J.D.s are professors at law schools, but I was wondering about one of my profs, who also taught undergrads and graduate students in another department.

Jay Bender
Visiting Professor
Reid H. Montgomery Freedom of Information Chair

B.A. Univ. of South Carolina
J.D. Univ. of South Carolina

So, they let a guy with just two bachelor's degrees teach at the college level.  For shame, right?

[Barrister]

How would you call someone with a PhD in law? That's what we call a "doctor juris" here.

Most law profs have a LL.M.

I think a couple of schools do offer an actual PhD in law.

[Barrister]

Here's a wrinkle.  Obviously a lot of J.D.s are professors at law schools, but I was wondering about one of my profs, who also taught undergrads and graduate students in another department.

Jay Bender
Visiting Professor
Reid H. Montgomery Freedom of Information Chair

B.A. Univ. of South Carolina
J.D. Univ. of South Carolina

So, they let a guy with just two bachelor's degrees teach at the college level.  For shame, right?

Meh - he doesn't have tenure, does he?  They let all kinds of practitioners teach in law school.

[CountDeMoney]

BB, you're still a fucking foreigner. So stop yapping about what you don't know about down here.

[Barrister]

BB, you're still a fucking foreigner. So stop yapping about what you don't know about down here.

Did you suddenly go to law school when I was napping?

How about being called to the bar?

No?

So I think I know who knows what they are talking about in this conversation.

[Eddie Teach]

How about being called to the bar?

Didn't he stop answering those calls long time ago?

[Barrister]

How about being called to the bar?

Didn't he stop answering those calls long time ago?

The best part of becoming a Crown was no longer having to take calls from drunks at 3am. 

[Ideologue]

How about being called to the bar?

Didn't he stop answering those calls long time ago?

The best part of becoming a Crown was no longer having to take calls from drunks at 3am.

I've still got your number.

[CountDeMoney]

BB, you're still a fucking foreigner. So stop yapping about what you don't know about down here.

Did you suddenly go to law school when I was napping?

How about being called to the bar?

No?

So I think I know who knows what they are talking about in this conversation.

I didn't have to go to Lawlz School to know a J.D. isn't the equivalent of a Bachelors.  Counselor.

[ulmont]

It should be treated as its own unique thing - a professional degree.

The "J.D." is an artifact of civil service pay scales that gave $X for a bachelors, $X + Y for a masters, and $X + Y + Z for a doctorate.  Lawyers immediately gamed the system.  And civil service rules don't play well with "its own unique thing."