Marines posed with flag resembling Nazi SS logo in Afghanistan

[PDH]

Before: fill in the blank.

"The farmer said this fall he expects a bumper ______."

That can withstand a 5mph impact?

[11B4V]

Next you'll be saying this excerpt from the Marine's code of conduct is also inapprporiate. 

[Berkut]

I guess I am confused: if you cannot be offended by the symbols of Nazi Germany what exactly is a legitimate reason to be offended Berkut? 

That is just it - I do not think it is a symbol of Nazi Germany. I think it has a coincidental similarity.

If I thought that they were all sitting around saying "Hey, we should totally admire and emulate the Nazi SS in our ethics and actions, and lets create this flag to make it clear that is what we stand for" then that would be extremely offensive.

"Lets make a badass Scout-Sniper flag using these cool lightning bolt S's!" is nothing to be offended about - except insofar that they should have been smart enough (or at least their officers should have been) to recognize that even coincidental similarities are enough to get the tenders panties all wadded up.

But hey, they are Marines, they are not selected for their cultural sensitivity. Shrug.

Let me put it to you like this:

If you were their commanding officer, and you came across them posing with the flag, would you:

A. Be offended that your men are apparently glorifying the Waffen SS, and concerned that they might all be Nazis? or
B. Chuckle at their attempt at being "bad ass" and tell them having a flag that even passing resembles a Waffen SS emblem is a bad idea and order them to get rid of it?

I think the answer is B, and am surprised that so many people seem to assume A, beyond the "birther" types who are just looking for something to find offensive.

[11B4V]

Not assuming their Nazi's. That would be for CID to figure out.

[Valmy]

That is just it - I do not think it is a symbol of Nazi Germany. I think it has a coincidental similarity.

There is nothing coincidental about it.  As you said it is an attempt to be badass and hardcore by associating with some badass hardcore dudes like the Waffen SS.  It is a homage to the SS and how awesome they were for godsake that is the intention.  It is pretty funny.  But come on dude you have to have "panties" and be fucking "sensitive" to be offended by the SS?  What.  The.  Fuck?

You are taking 'outrage at PC' to stupid new levels.  The Marines did this precisely to be hardcore and shock people for fucksake.  At least give them their due.

[PDH]

Face it, these Marines, never having contact with the world, history (ok, that is likely), or never used the internet, came up with the side by side runic S symbology all on their own.

[Razgovory]

I thought Berkut was a wargamer.  Well, I suppose this dispenses with that notion.

[Richard Hakluyt]

We had this discussion quite recently with the pissing on corpses incident. As in the former case I go with Berkut's point B. With the way things go viral on the internet it is important to get people like lieutenants and senior sergeants to realise that this sort of thing needs to be nipped in the bud. It is their duty to protect their grunts from their own foolishness.

[Valmy]

We had this discussion quite recently with the pissing on corpses incident. As in the former case I go with Berkut's point B. With the way things go viral on the internet it is important to get people like lieutenants and senior sergeants to realise that this sort of thing needs to be nipped in the bud. It is their duty to protect their grunts from their own foolishness.

I think we can all agree with that.

[11B4V]

We had this discussion quite recently with the pissing on corpses incident. As in the former case I go with Berkut's point B. With the way things go viral on the internet it is important to get people like lieutenants and senior sergeants to realise that this sort of thing needs to be nipped in the bud. It is their duty to protect their grunts from their own foolishness.

"B" is the correct choice, but the rest of his arguement is not.

[Berkut]

That is just it - I do not think it is a symbol of Nazi Germany. I think it has a coincidental similarity.

There is nothing coincidental about it.  As you said it is an attempt to be badass and hardcore by associating with some badass hardcore dudes like the Waffen SS.  It is a homage to the SS and how awesome they were for godsake that is the intention.  It is pretty funny.  But come on dude you have to have "panties" and be fucking "sensitive" to be offended by the SS?  What.  The.  Fuck?

You are taking 'outrage at PC' to stupid new levels.  The Marines did this precisely to be hardcore and shock people for fucksake.  At least give them their due.

Meh, I don't buy it. If they wanted it to look like the SS, they did a pretty shitty job of it, since it doesn't look like an SS symbol at all, except in passing.

I guess you can believe they know just enough about the Waffen SS to know that they should use two lightning bolt S's, but not enough to know that they should be right next to each other, white on a black background, include a deaths head, etc., etc.

And yes, you have to be pretty damn sensitve to be offended by this, absolutely. It isn't about being PC though, it is about the need to manufacture outrage.

[Berkut]

We had this discussion quite recently with the pissing on corpses incident. As in the former case I go with Berkut's point B. With the way things go viral on the internet it is important to get people like lieutenants and senior sergeants to realise that this sort of thing needs to be nipped in the bud. It is their duty to protect their grunts from their own foolishness.

[Josephus]

The problem with symbols is that they have cultural meaning, Berk.  In this case, while your qualifier "forever" makes the answer no, the presence the runic double S has meaning that does indeed resonate.

Good point, but my point is that one should not be offended or concerned about the meaning behind a symbol unless there is some good reason to think the person(s) using the symbol actually intend for it to reflect that meaning. KISS using the runic S font is not an issue because nobody really thinks that they are trying to emulate the Nazi SS, even if they symbol in question shares some coincidental similarity.

How is this any different? Do people think they actually were trying to re-create the Nazi SS symbol? Because they did a piss poor job if they were - it is the wrong color, wrong spacing, and has none of the typical iconography that goes with the SS.

I am not surprised that this gets used just like I am not surprised that there are birthers in the world. But I am not going to agree with them.

So you're saying that if a political party uses a blue swastika, on a green background....it's OK, because it's nothing like the Nazi black on red?

[Berkut]

The problem with symbols is that they have cultural meaning, Berk.  In this case, while your qualifier "forever" makes the answer no, the presence the runic double S has meaning that does indeed resonate.

Good point, but my point is that one should not be offended or concerned about the meaning behind a symbol unless there is some good reason to think the person(s) using the symbol actually intend for it to reflect that meaning. KISS using the runic S font is not an issue because nobody really thinks that they are trying to emulate the Nazi SS, even if they symbol in question shares some coincidental similarity.

How is this any different? Do people think they actually were trying to re-create the Nazi SS symbol? Because they did a piss poor job if they were - it is the wrong color, wrong spacing, and has none of the typical iconography that goes with the SS.

I am not surprised that this gets used just like I am not surprised that there are birthers in the world. But I am not going to agree with them.

So you're saying that if a political party uses a blue swastika, on a green background....it's OK, because it's nothing like the Nazi black on red?

Depends on why I think they are using it - does the swastika have any use OTHER THAN as a representation of the Nazi's? I don't know of one myself, so I would in fact assume that someone using a swastika, no matter what color, is an attempt to associate themselves to the Nazis. I suppose I could be convinced otherwise though, but it would be a tough sell.

Obviously the letters S do in fact have some use beyond them standing for Schutszstaffel. So I am not going to assume that their use is necessarily intended to create an association.

[Razgovory]

Meh, I don't buy it. If they wanted it to look like the SS, they did a pretty shitty job of it, since it doesn't look like an SS symbol at all, except in passing.

Of course you don't buy it.  American Military is part of your "Tribe".