Iraq falling apart?

[KRonn]

Is there a military base near Baltimore btw?

IIRC Andrews is fairly close.

Andrews AFB is down by DC.  Baltimore's got Aberdeen PG on one side, and Ft. Meade on the other.  Full nuclear preliminary attack conference.

Is Pax River Naval Air Station still operating? I was there briefly for some training on new aircraft, back when I was in the service/reserves.

[11B4V]

I get the feeling that I'm about to see a train wreck. I dont know why.

I agree, and I know why:  the Prime Minister is trying to destroy his own country for sectarian and personal reasons.  His reorganization of the government to place all power in his own hands (he is Defense Minister, National Security Minister, and Interior Minister, so all the government's armed agents all report to him) is very worrying.

I know why iraq is/will be a train wreck. I was refer to this thread...

[CountDeMoney]

Is there a military base near Baltimore btw?

IIRC Andrews is fairly close.

Andrews AFB is down by DC.  Baltimore's got Aberdeen PG on one side, and Ft. Meade on the other.  Full nuclear preliminary attack conference.

Is Pax River Naval Air Station still operating? I was there briefly for some training on new aircraft, back when I was in the service/reserves.

Oh yeah.  Whenever I go down to the nuclear power plant, I invariably see some F-18s or an occasional E-2C Hawkeye flying about.

[fhdz]

Iormbro

[Sheilbh]

After a trip to China he decided to leave his job and go see the world. He took a bus to Slovenia with another two guys, bought a bike and pedaled all the way to Thessaloníki. Then hitch-hiked alone down to Athens, crossed to Rhodes via Santorini and went into Turkey. The idea was to reach Armenia, Georgia and Iran, but a few days after leaving Istambul a Turkish girl joined him on his quest. He now lives with her in Ankara.

That sounds awesome.  I'm very, very jealous.

I have a planned trip I've always wanted to do from Istanbul into Iran and back, spending some time dallying around the Caucus.  One day.

[Iormlund]

That sounds awesome.  I'm very, very jealous.

That's what his boss said when my brother told him what he was leaving the job for.

I have a planned trip I've always wanted to do from Istanbul into Iran and back, spending some time dallying around the Caucus.  One day.

He certainly had a blast. I would be tempted to do the same if it wasn't for my thing. I'm not anywhere near as adventurous when it comes to travel, food or places to stay though, so I'd do it on a motorbike or car and sleeping at campings and such.

[Tamas]

That sounds awesome.  I'm very, very jealous.

That's what his boss said when my brother told him what he was leaving the job for.

I have a planned trip I've always wanted to do from Istanbul into Iran and back, spending some time dallying around the Caucus.  One day.

He certainly had a blast. I would be tempted to do the same if it wasn't for my thing. I'm not anywhere near as adventurous when it comes to travel, food or places to stay though, so I'd do it on a motorbike or car and sleeping at campings and such.

There was an epic planning thread on previous Languish, about a month-long US car trip me and 2 of my family were planning / dreaming about. Too bad it's lost, people have given a lot of good ideas and we haven't dared to burn most of our savings on this, there is a good chance we never will

[Camerus]

If things go tits up in Iraq, America will get the blame, and rightfully so, sad to say.  After all, this is the government that was left in place after Dubya invaded the place and removed the previous one... an extremely controversial action which the administration and its apologists then spent years justifying to the world as regime change in order to bring teh freedom to Iraqis. 

Iraq 2 has to have been the biggest US policy boner in my lifetime.

[Grinning_Colossus]

After a trip to China he decided to leave his job and go see the world. He took a bus to Slovenia with another two guys, bought a bike and pedaled all the way to Thessaloníki. Then hitch-hiked alone down to Athens, crossed to Rhodes via Santorini and went into Turkey. The idea was to reach Armenia, Georgia and Iran, but a few days after leaving Istambul a Turkish girl joined him on his quest. He now lives with her in Ankara.

That women possibly saved his life. 

All you'll die from in Georgia is khatchapuri. 

Those Iran-loving America-hating hippie scumbags were rich?  I didn't know that, but I'm not surprised.

If they were the kind of Cal grads I'm familiar with, almost certainly.



Incidentally, a few months ago I met some cyclists outside of the local refrigerated market who were going from Istanbul to Shanghai. I took them to the internet cafe and they told me that I worked for an evil organization. I wonder if they made it.

[Eddie Teach]

If things go tits up in Iraq, America will get the blame, and rightfully so, sad to say. 

Nah, there's a point at which the Iraqis have to step up and take responsibility for making their own country work.

[Berkut]

If things go tits up in Iraq, America will get the blame, and rightfully so, sad to say. 

Nah, there's a point at which the Iraqis have to step up and take responsibility for making their own country work.

When it comes to a desire to assign blame, issues such as this are not really important to people who have an agenda. The Iraqis are just victims of the evil Americans, they cannot have any responsibility themselves. Only Americans can be responsible for Iraq.

It is a rather bizarre viewpoint, isn't it? Iraqis are not responsible for what happens in their own country, apparently.

I could certainly see the viewpoint that the US could bear some responsibility if the US went in, took out a stable government, and then neglected to even try to give the successor government the tools necessary to manage themselves. But I don't think you can make any such claim credibly - Iraq has had more help than many, many, MANY countries that have managed to not fall to pieces. Between US and allied support and a easy source of revenue in oil, I don't see how anyone can claim that they do not have the necessary tools to assume responsibility for their own state.

[Queequeg]

I hope not! 

Since he said she's a Turk, in my mind's eye she looks like the Sultana Roxelana, which is odd since I think she was actually a Circassian or Georgian or something non-Turkish like that.

She would be called a Ukrainian today. 

[Razgovory]

If things go tits up in Iraq, America will get the blame, and rightfully so, sad to say. 

Nah, there's a point at which the Iraqis have to step up and take responsibility for making their own country work.

When it comes to a desire to assign blame, issues such as this are not really important to people who have an agenda. The Iraqis are just victims of the evil Americans, they cannot have any responsibility themselves. Only Americans can be responsible for Iraq.

It is a rather bizarre viewpoint, isn't it? Iraqis are not responsible for what happens in their own country, apparently.

I could certainly see the viewpoint that the US could bear some responsibility if the US went in, took out a stable government, and then neglected to even try to give the successor government the tools necessary to manage themselves. But I don't think you can make any such claim credibly - Iraq has had more help than many, many, MANY countries that have managed to not fall to pieces. Between US and allied support and a easy source of revenue in oil, I don't see how anyone can claim that they do not have the necessary tools to assume responsibility for their own state.

You can't?  Think a little harder.  Keep in mind the Iraq was fairly stable prior to the first Gulf War.  It's dishonest to say "Well, it was unstable before we got there", when the US was major source of that instability.

[Berkut]

If things go tits up in Iraq, America will get the blame, and rightfully so, sad to say. 

Nah, there's a point at which the Iraqis have to step up and take responsibility for making their own country work.

When it comes to a desire to assign blame, issues such as this are not really important to people who have an agenda. The Iraqis are just victims of the evil Americans, they cannot have any responsibility themselves. Only Americans can be responsible for Iraq.

It is a rather bizarre viewpoint, isn't it? Iraqis are not responsible for what happens in their own country, apparently.

I could certainly see the viewpoint that the US could bear some responsibility if the US went in, took out a stable government, and then neglected to even try to give the successor government the tools necessary to manage themselves. But I don't think you can make any such claim credibly - Iraq has had more help than many, many, MANY countries that have managed to not fall to pieces. Between US and allied support and a easy source of revenue in oil, I don't see how anyone can claim that they do not have the necessary tools to assume responsibility for their own state.

You can't?  Think a little harder.  Keep in mind the Iraq was fairly stable prior to the first Gulf War.  It's dishonest to say "Well, it was unstable before we got there", when the US was major source of that instability.

The first Gulf War came about as a result of Iraq attacking their neighbor in a war of naked aggression.

What is dishonest is saying that the "source" of the instability in post GF1 Iraq was the US (and presumably the rest of the world, since everyone was in on that one).

And you have an interesting definition of "stable" that includes the state gassing it's own citizens. That isn't stability worthy of aspiring too.

[Ideologue]

And you have an interesting definition of "stable" that includes the state gassing it's own citizens. That isn't stability worthy of aspiring too.

Razgovory = Ron Paul.