What is the West? Is Greece part of the West?

[Razgovory]

This Muslim view on their pre-Muslim ancestors is something that I read about from other Muslims.  I found it strange, but didn't question it.  The Christian West tended to strip the religious significance from the ancient Greek authors (and much of ancient Greek and Roman culture all together).  It gave an impression of secularism that I don't think was actually there.  For instance, much of Greek moral philosophy arose to solve perceived deficiencies in the Greek religious practices.

But the Christianity the Christian west developed was already overwhelmingly influenced by those philosophers, given the Greeks themselves developed early Christianity.  So when you read Greek Philosophers you see ideas from Christianity all over the place.  Greek moral philosophy is a good example.

I think Plato had preciously little with writing the Bible.  Also I think the Jews had a major impact on it as well.

[Valmy]

My point was why should we assume that we are more "Greek", the the Greeks are?  If ancient Greece was indeed the cradle of Western culture, why is only Western Europe worthy to be heirs of this intellectual heritage?

We aren't.  Ancient Greece was the cradle for more than one culture.

[crazy canuck]

This Muslim view on their pre-Muslim ancestors is something that I read about from other Muslims.  I found it strange, but didn't question it.  The Christian West tended to strip the religious significance from the ancient Greek authors (and much of ancient Greek and Roman culture all together).  It gave an impression of secularism that I don't think was actually there.  For instance, much of Greek moral philosophy arose to solve perceived deficiencies in the Greek religious practices.

But the Christianity the Christian west developed was already overwhelmingly influenced by those philosophers, given the Greeks themselves developed early Christianity.  So when you read Greek Philosophers you see ideas from Christianity all over the place.  Greek moral philosophy is a good example.

Rather you see ideas from Greek philosophy all over the place when you read Christian texts but I grant you the reverse could also be true for later Greek philosophers.

[Valmy]

I think Plato had preciously little with writing the Bible.  Also I think the Jews had a major impact on it as well.

I think Plato had tons to do with Christian thought.

[Valmy]

Rather you see ideas from Greek philosophy all over the place when you read Christian texts

Right

[fhdz]

I think Plato had preciously little with writing the Bible.

Obviously Plato didn't *write* anything in the Bible, but if you think the New Testament isn't littered with Platonic thought...I just can't even begin to wonder how you could read anything about the history of Christianity and come to that conclusion.

[crazy canuck]

I think Plato had preciously little with writing the Bible.  Also I think the Jews had a major impact on it as well.

If the Jews had a "major" impact why is it that all the earliest texts are written in Greek? Where are all the Aramiac writings?  The main impact Jews had on Christianity is that the earlier Christian writers were proposing a form of Chrisitianity that would be more friendly to a Jewish audience - Matthew is often pointed to for this.  But by the time Paul starts writing his letters and particularly by the time the gospel of John is written that Jewish friendly attitude falls away completely (to say the very least).

[Sheilbh]

I think Plato had preciously little with writing the Bible.  Also I think the Jews had a major impact on it as well.

But the Jews and the Greeks existed in the same cultural universe.  They came into contact with one another.  I think the Wisdom writers seem to have been influenced by trends in the thought of Hellenised Jewish communities.

[PDH]

My post got lost, not worth retyping.

Raz, I think you are coming from a rather uninformed viewpoint of the classic greek philosophers and their impact upon Christian and later Medieval thought.

[fhdz]

Raz, I think you are coming from a rather uninformed viewpoint of the classic greek philosophers and their impact upon Christian and later Medieval thought.

That will never stop him from arguing.

[crazy canuck]

I think Plato had preciously little with writing the Bible.  Also I think the Jews had a major impact on it as well.

But the Jews and the Greeks existed in the same cultural universe.  They came into contact with one another.  I think the Wisdom writers seem to have been influenced by trends in the thought of Hellenised Jewish communities.

Yeah, Paul is actually a very good example of this.  A Hellenized Jew who broke with Jewish tradition and embrazed the cultural dominance of the Hellenized world.

[The Brain]

And a bank wobbew.

[Razgovory]

I think Plato had preciously little with writing the Bible.  Also I think the Jews had a major impact on it as well.

If the Jews had a "major" impact why is it that all the earliest texts are written in Greek? Where are all the Aramiac writings?  The main impact Jews had on Christianity is that the earlier Christian writers were proposing a form of Chrisitianity that would be more friendly to a Jewish audience - Matthew is often pointed to for this.  But by the time Paul starts writing his letters and particularly by the time the gospel of John is written that Jewish friendly attitude falls away completely (to say the very least).

Well half of it is written in Hebrew, and most of the characters are Jews.  I'd say they had a major impact on the bible. 

[Razgovory]

My post got lost, not worth retyping.

Raz, I think you are coming from a rather uninformed viewpoint of the classic greek philosophers and their impact upon Christian and later Medieval thought.

I think there is a difference between the bible itself and later Christian thought.

[crazy canuck]

Well half of it is written in Hebrew, and most of the characters are Jews.  I'd say they had a major impact on the bible.

The Christian part is written in Greek.  The Hebrew parts are included for legitimacy.