Community-based economies the answer?

[merithyn]

First of all, I sincerely doubt that CEOs of incorporated businesses "have the majority of money in our economy right now."

I have no idea. I'm more concerned with making enough money to feed my family right now to worry about how much - or how little - anyone else makes.

Second of all, I don't see how you can just dismiss away the impact your/Gar's plan would have on shareholders, either individual or institutional.

I'm not dismissing it. It never occured to me until you posted, so I couldn't possibly have dismissed it. It has to be factored into whatever model comes up because it's a major concern for everyone. Do you think going more local will seriously adversely affect the shareholders? I know going completely local would be devestating. How much is too much?

Finally, and I say this because I love you like the Mexican sister I never had, this whole thread has very much an Occupy Wall Street "everyone throw their pet issue into the pot and call it a plan" feel to it.

Oh, there's no question that this guy is a huge advocate of the Occupy movement. Listen to the interview and he's sings their praises. I don't know how I feel about the movement other than to say that I have a fairly strong personal distaste for the megalopolies that drive our economy, like Citibank, pharmaceutical companies, etc. because of the policies that I have directly run into that I found fundamentally wrong. (My opinion only.)

[merithyn]

My issue with all of this is that my personal inclination is toward a local economy, but I know that it, like communism, doesn't work beyond a very small group of people (=/< 50 people). So I'm trying to figure out the best global economy moving forward. I don't believe that our economic model right now is sustainable, so it makes sense - to me - to try to look beyond both of those models while recognizing the positive and negatives of each.

[Ideologue]

Massive human dieback coupled with a reevaluation of how people earn the right to live is the only real option.

Dieback sounds nasty, but it needn't be.  Global population is already poised to collapse.  In other words, we've already solved one problem, albeit perhaps too late to stave off many negative effects.

The foundations of modern capitalism are going to be a lot more difficult to deal with, since they form the basis of our civilization, and its ethos is perhaps ingrained in our nature.  In which case we're doomed and dieback will be a lot more severe than one might first expect.

[DGuller]

To me it sounds like the guy's solution is in desperate search of a problem.

You don't think that our society's economic picture is bleak?

  No, I don't.  We're at a low point now, economically and politically, but we haven't reached a permanently new level of dysfunction.

[Habbaku]

I think our situation's pretty bleak.  2% growth instead of 3% is pretty damn bleak!

[Phillip V]

[Ideologue]

"Death would be too merciful for you, Zap Rowsdower!"

[Malthus]

I still have very little notion of what this guy's plan is other than "buy local" - and that Cleveland is somehow involved as an example. 

[11B4V]

This sounds gay and hippyish.

+1  I'm already buying basic school supplies for the........less fortunate.

[Ed Anger]

Cleveland is a shithole. I sure haven't seen any sort of real recovery up there.

Assuming that Cleveland is in Ohio and not in fantasyland.

[The Minsky Moment]

I'm not sure you understand what he's talking about. He's saying that we need to buy local whenever possible, encourage local economic growth before state or international growth, and use local-based companies as a rule rather than an exception. I'm not sure how any of that is going to cause what you surmise.

If it's not coercive, it won't work and if it is coercive, it will do more harm than good.

Most people make decisions to purchase produce and other goods based on cost.  If the local goods are more expensive, they won't purchase them unless there are coercive measures (like tariffs, subsidies or exclusions) to sway them.  That gets you into the whole discussion of why trade is beneficial, theories of competitive advantage, etc.

[PDH]

This sounds gay and hippyish.

+1  I'm already buying basic school supplies for the........less fortunate.

The problem is with the solutions, not the problem.

[derspiess]

Agreed. Hundreds of millions of Chinese have been lifted out of poverty the past few decades thanks to globalization. And the American consumer gets cheaper and more various goods. In fact, Chinese wages have skyrocketed so rapidly that net manufacturing is returning back to America this decade because it is no longer profitable for businesses to outsource to China (shipping costs, foreign complications, etc.).

And frankly we don't want a lot of it back, because in many cases it's not profitable.  Case in point, the iPhone & iPad: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2011/12/24/china-makes-almost-nothing-out-of-apples-ipads-and-i/

[Phillip V]

Agreed. Hundreds of millions of Chinese have been lifted out of poverty the past few decades thanks to globalization. And the American consumer gets cheaper and more various goods. In fact, Chinese wages have skyrocketed so rapidly that net manufacturing is returning back to America this decade because it is no longer profitable for businesses to outsource to China (shipping costs, foreign complications, etc.).

And frankly we don't want a lot of it back, because in many cases it's not profitable.  Case in point, the iPhone & iPad: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2011/12/24/china-makes-almost-nothing-out-of-apples-ipads-and-i/

Well there is a mismatch between what Americans say and do in regards to manufacturing.

Two-thirds want manufacturing to become a bigger share of the economy again. But only 10% would recommend their children pursue a career/study in manufacturing.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Manufacturing is going the same way that agriculture did, an increasingly small number of people will meet our manufacturing requirements. Services, however, there seems to be an insatiable demand for labour here