Community-based economies the answer?

[dps]

I'm not so certain that it would help the local economy in anything but the short-term.  It will certainly help specific groups in the local economy, but if people lack the means to purchase some items because they're spending more to buy some goods locally...

Is this necessarily a bad thing? Maybe going local for a while is what's necessary to rebuild the middle-class so that the next model can take us to the next level.

It would much more likely destroy what's left of the middle class.

There are people who could have afforded to own their own homes a generation or 2 ago who can't now because the money that they could have used to purchase a home has to be used to purchase food and gasoline instead.  You're proposing ideas that would greatly increase most people's costs to buy daily necessities.  Working people would go from having to rent because they can't save up enough money for a down payment on a home to not being able to afford to rent either.

[Razgovory]

See, this is the problem.  Raz is correct, most people are simply going to go for the cheaper alternative, and 95% of the time, that's not going to be the local alternative.  You'd have to dictate that "choice" for people, or at least provide strong incentives, such as prohibitively high tarrifs.

Yeah, the only way to really do it is some sort of coercive force.  Tariffs or whatever.  Just saying "Hey, everyone do this", isn't going to work.  If that was true, the Government would have stamped out illegal drug use long ago.

[dps]

I seem to recall this happening before, with all of us jumping on Meri for unsound ideas.

How odd. I am asking questions and advocating nothing, and yet this is your response. Well thought-out and useful, as usual, Raz.

And when people point out the negatives of the guy's ideas, you seem to defend his views--which many people will interpret, perhaps incorrectly but not unreasonably, as you being an advocate of the ideas.

[Admiral Yi]

Right now there's a movement in this direction in a number of local areas. Some have even created local currencies to use for local products, and using it gives them a discount. The incentive is a backlash against corporate greed, or so they claim. It's an organic movement at the local level to boycott the "1%". Unfortunately, I think this may be going too far.

This is nonsense.  The evol 1% doesn't own Best Buy, our pension plans own Best Buy.

[Habbaku]

This is nonsense.  The evol 1% doesn't own Best Buy, our pension plans own Best Buy.

Poor investment choice for our pension plans. 

[Neil]

Was the author Captain Crunch?  Because he used to talk about those sorts of things.

[Phillip V]

Yeah, but those people aren't slaves.  They actually want those jobs.  There is a great talk about the evils of sweat shops and the like, but it turns out, most of those people actually want those jobs.  There are exceptions and where people are forced into unfree labor, but generally speaking, they want those jobs.  It's a hell of lot easier and safer then farming and you get much more cash.  An excellent example is The Kathie Lee Gifford sweatshop scandal in the 1990's.  When it was revealed her line of clothing was being made in Central American sweatshops.  She tearfully apologized and they closed down the factories.  You know who was really pissed?  The average workers, who while making pitiful wages by American standards, were making several times the national average.

Yah, I think Nike had to do the same for some sweatshops in 90s, closing them down. Luckily, the women and children found new jobs as prostitutes. There's always demand for that.

[merithyn]

It would much more likely destroy what's left of the middle class.

There are people who could have afforded to own their own homes a generation or 2 ago who can't now because the money that they could have used to purchase a home has to be used to purchase food and gasoline instead.  You're proposing ideas that would greatly increase most people's costs to buy daily necessities.  Working people would go from having to rent because they can't save up enough money for a down payment on a home to not being able to afford to rent either.

Yeah, that'd be a serious issue. Of course, if you carried it to the next level - using only local banks, builders, etc. - there may cheaper houses to buy. I don't know. It's certainly possible, but I don't know how probable it would be.

[merithyn]

And when people point out the negatives of the guy's ideas, you seem to defend his views--which many people will interpret, perhaps incorrectly but not unreasonably, as you being an advocate of the ideas.

I'm trying to understand both sides equally. If one argues against him, I'm trying to understand why, or to dig deeper into the argument. In fact, I see a lot of issues with this man's ideas. I also see some positives. I'm trying to understand both more thoroughly. Only here is that considered "advocating".

[HVC]

Why does everyone want to go tribal all of a sudden? Scotts want indepence, this guy wants city states back (actually more primitive, since city states traded). Communties are too small to be self sefficient. who is going to build cars, tv, etc. more complicated things require production chains.

[Valmy]

And really so what if Meri thought these were good ideas?  You would never resort to attacking the person instead of the idea would you Raz? 

[merithyn]

This is nonsense.  The evol 1% doesn't own Best Buy, our pension plans own Best Buy.

Agreed. However, those who run those businesses have the majority of the money in our economy right now, which is, I think, what is considered the bigger issue than who actually owns the company.

[Valmy]

Why does everyone want to go tribal all of a sudden? Scotts want indepence, this guy wants city states back (actually more primitive, since city states traded). Communties are too small to be self sefficient. who is going to build cars, tv, etc. more complicated things require production chains.

They can sell us cheap Chinese goods but they can never take our FREEEDOM?

[HVC]

Why does everyone want to go tribal all of a sudden? Scotts want indepence, this guy wants city states back (actually more primitive, since city states traded). Communties are too small to be self sefficient. who is going to build cars, tv, etc. more complicated things require production chains.

They can sell us cheap Chinese goods but they can never take our FREEEDOM?

that's it. you're getting hung, drawn, and quartered!

[Admiral Yi]

Agreed. However, those who run those businesses have the majority of the money in our economy right now, which is, I think, what is considered the bigger issue than who actually owns the company.

First of all, I sincerely doubt that CEOs of incorporated businesses "have the majority of money in our economy right now."

Second of all, I don't see how you can just dismiss away the impact your/Gar's plan would have on shareholders, either individual or institutional.

Finally, and I say this because I love you like the Mexican sister I never had, this whole thread has very much an Occupy Wall Street "everyone throw their pet issue into the pot and call it a plan" feel to it.