Community-based economies the answer?

[Zanza]

The company I work for sells most of its products in other countries. It could not survive with a localized economy, so I would be out of work. No thanks.

[crazy canuck]

Isn't that what we had as the ideal in the Middle Ages?  That each manor should be an independent self-sufficient economic unit?

Sounds interesting though.

Actually, he argued in the interview that what we have today is feudal economics, with 1% of the population owning most things and others toiling for them.

that is just silly.  Most "things" are owned by publicly traded corporations that are owned by large numbers of people especially if one considered the large pension fund holdings in such corporations.

[Barrister]

Isn't that what we had as the ideal in the Middle Ages?  That each manor should be an independent self-sufficient economic unit?

Sounds interesting though.

Actually, he argued in the interview that what we have today is feudal economics, with 1% of the population owning most things and others toiling for them. I thought that was an interesting thought...

I'm pretty sure Karl Marx had the same thought back in the 19th century.  Based on his book's title I'm pretty sure that's where he got the idea from.

[merithyn]

This just sounds bad.  Interfacing economies (specifically separate currencies) rarely works out neatly.  As citizens, we're usually shielded from some of the costs by the simple fact that most of the interfacing happens at the government level, so we just don't have to deal with it.  Very few communities are completely self-sufficient anymore, so there'd be a lot more in the way of imports under this system, including "imports" of basic goods.  Urban residents needing to buy fruits, vegetables, and dairy is one example that springs immediately to mind.

I'm not sure you understand what he's talking about. He's saying that we need to buy local whenever possible, encourage local economic growth before state or international growth, and use local-based companies as a rule rather than an exception. I'm not sure how any of that is going to cause what you surmise.

[crazy canuck]

This just sounds bad.  Interfacing economies (specifically separate currencies) rarely works out neatly.  As citizens, we're usually shielded from some of the costs by the simple fact that most of the interfacing happens at the government level, so we just don't have to deal with it.  Very few communities are completely self-sufficient anymore, so there'd be a lot more in the way of imports under this system, including "imports" of basic goods.  Urban residents needing to buy fruits, vegetables, and dairy is one example that springs immediately to mind.

I'm not sure you understand what he's talking about. He's saying that we need to buy local whenever possible, encourage local economic growth before state or international growth, and use local-based companies as a rule rather than an exception. I'm not sure how any of that is going to cause what you surmise.

Buying local is a fine idea.  But putting it before international trade is a terrible idea.

[Razgovory]

How do you do that, Meri?  How do you make people chose options that are likely to be more expensive?

[merithyn]

I cant imagine how horrible life would be under such an isolated economy.  No fresh fruits and vegetables during winter.  No French or Italian wines.  No French cheese (or Oka cheese). No thanks.

Fruits and vegetables - at the local level, anyway, in a number of communities - can be grown in greenhouses, and likely would be.

It's the other stuff that I worry about, too. I like having access to an International market. At the same time, I like having truly fresh fruits and vegetables that were grown nearby.

[Phillip V]

This local growth will come naturally if we have strong, fulfilling relationships with our families, friends, neighbors, and colleagues. I will patronize the local coffee shop if the owner is nice to me and pats me on the back.

Thus, stop getting divorced / having dramaz / hiding in gadgets.

[Barrister]

I cant imagine how horrible life would be under such an isolated economy.  No fresh fruits and vegetables during winter.  No French or Italian wines.  No French cheese (or Oka cheese). No thanks.

Fruits and vegetables - at the local level, anyway, in a number of communities - can be grown in greenhouses, and likely would be.

It's the other stuff that I worry about, too. I like having access to an International market. At the same time, I like having truly fresh fruits and vegetables that were grown nearby.

Trouble is growing food in greenhouses is quite energy intensive.  Though it does taste better, I understand it is often cheaper to grow food in distant locations and have it shipped.

[crazy canuck]

I cant imagine how horrible life would be under such an isolated economy.  No fresh fruits and vegetables during winter.  No French or Italian wines.  No French cheese (or Oka cheese). No thanks.

Fruits and vegetables - at the local level, anyway, in a number of communities - can be grown in greenhouses, and likely would be.

It's the other stuff that I worry about, too. I like having access to an International market. At the same time, I like having truly fresh fruits and vegetables that were grown nearby.

Trouble is growing food in greenhouses is quite energy intensive.  Though it does taste better, I understand it is often cheaper to grow food in distant locations and have it shipped.

Exactly right.  The Lower Mainland here as a large greenhouse growing industry (and not just for the illicit stuff ).  That production doesnt come close to meeting the demand for fresh produce and fruit.  That comes mainly from southern California in the off season when it cannot be grown locally.

[merithyn]

How do you do that, Meri?  How do you make people chose options that are likely to be more expensive?

I don't intend to make anyone do anything. I only asked if there is a way to marry both ideologies. I like the idea of buying locally whenever possible - even if there's a small premium to do so - but I also like being able to use a cellphone (China), drink fine wine (Italian, Australian, German), and eat good chese (France, Belgium).

The question for me is what is the best long-term economic model, and can I have it all in that model?

[Valmy]

Actually, he argued in the interview that what we have today is feudal economics, with 1% of the population owning most things and others toiling for them. I thought that was an interesting thought...

Well today the problem is not that people are toiling, it is that we cannot find toil for them to do.

[Sheilbh]

I think this is already starting to happen.  In part because of a cultural reaction against globalisation towards more 'authentic' products.  It is, as it should be, a consumer choice that isn't necessarily antagonistic to global trade.

It's interesting that something that sounds so old fashioned to a large extent depends on modern technology.  I like that aspect of it.

I don't intend to make anyone do anything. I only asked if there is a way to marry both ideologies. I like the idea of buying locally whenever possible - even if there's a small premium to do so - but I also like being able to use a cellphone (China), drink fine wine (Italian, Australian, German), and eat good chese (France, Belgium).

Of course it's possible.  It's a consumer choice contained in your phrase 'whenever possible'.  If you have the choice, buy local.  If you don't, you can't.

Trouble is growing food in greenhouses is quite energy intensive.  Though it does taste better, I understand it is often cheaper to grow food in distant locations and have it shipped.

And better environmentally.  There was a big furor over food miles.  The Economist worked out that in terms of CO2 consumption you're better buying Spanish tomatoes than growing them in Norfolk in greenhouses.

[merithyn]

I think the bigger problem is that as a society - a global society - we can't survive on the current model. Our standard of living is reliant on pretty much slave labor somewhere, and so long as people continue to argue for - and win - better working conditions, at some point, we won't be able to pay for the things we want. The stuff we want will just be too costly to make, and therefore, too costly for the average person to buy it.

So the question is: What gives? Our standard of living or the slave labor? Would buying those things closer to home that we can help with the other stuff, or make it worse? Will it bring in more jobs or lose them?

[Admiral Yi]

It seems to me that the drawback in your plan is the same drawback contained in protectionism: you could theoretically increase community incomes (and therefore local government revenues and provision of services) by paying a premium for locally produced goods, but if everyone around the world does the same thing then everyone suffers a net decrease in income.