So what's the big fucking deal about Marines pissing on dead Taliban?

[11B4V]

I would have built a pyramid of skulls.

and it would've beeen gloriuos....

[PDH]

I would have built a pyramid of skulls.

Decimating the marine unit might have hurt morale...

[Richard Hakluyt]

I have no doubt that if this vid had not gone viral and an NCO or Officer had seen this, they would have been told to knock it off or they would have joined them. It's only a big deal because it went public.

That is the problem.

IMO the best resolution would have been their NCO going ballistic and making their lives a misery for a few weeks, with the big wide world never finding out about it. These are young men in difficult circumstances commiting a foolish act, their lives may well be ruined now that is in the public sphere.

Every been around a bunch of Grunts? Keep living in a fantasy world.

I don't know what you mean 

You are going to have to spell it out for me.

[crazy canuck]

This case is a good reason for having military tribunals.  I have never lived under the stress these men have.  They are best judged by people that can understand the context in which these acts occurred and the rules and regulations the military has for governing their conduct.

You seem to be implying that the marines involved are better off being tried by a court martial than in a civilian criminal court.  Well, you might be right if we're talking about an Afghan civilian court, but I suspect that a court martial can hand down a far harsher penalty than a civilian criminal court could in the US.  In a civilian court, all they could be charged with AFAIK in most jurisdictions would be desecrating a corpse, which would probably just draw a relatively small fine (though I'm not sure about that).  I'm sure that a court martial could level some far more serious charges.

I dont imply they would be better off.  My point is this is a good example of why military justice should be separate since what occurred is so far outside the realm of experience of a civilian jurist.

[crazy canuck]

This case is a good reason for having military tribunals.  I have never lived under the stress these men have.  They are best judged by people that can understand the context in which these acts occurred and the rules and regulations the military has for governing their conduct.

To counter the state within the state effect, I prefer having the military being subject to the normal civilian judiciary. It's part of the oversight of civil society over the military.

I wouldnt want to waste the money required to have expert witnesses explain to a civilian judiciary what it is like to be a soldier.

It's irrelevent though. Soldiers have rules. They breaks the rules, they face the punishment. There's not need for expert witnesses to explain what it's like to be in the army. The rules for conduct is made for soldiers.
Otherwise the case goes something like this:

Judge: "Soldier. You are here because you peed on the dead enemy. Which goes against the rules of conduct, as well as everything we stand for. What's your excuse?"

Soldier. "War. what is it good for? Absolutely nothing."

Judge: "Do we have a cooroborating witness?"

Witness: "Yes. I was in the first Gulf War. War is bad. I know someone who almost died."

Judge: "Fuck? REally? Release the soldier at once. Case dismissed. And next time we make rules about war conduct we should take into account that war is hell."

I dont think you understand the purpose of expert witnesses in this context, either that or you are trolling.

[CountDeMoney]

I'm just annoyed by the cognitive dissonance of people saying on one hand that pissing on dead bodies is after all what killers do, but then the next day going on to praise these people as heroes and rolemodels. You can't have it both ways.

Sure you can.  I for one am glad that those Marines are not only fighting and killing the people who would want to support Al Qaeda and kill me, but they're pissing on their corpses as well.  Sorta like a golden exclamation point to the whole thing.

The Taliban deserve no quarter, deserve no respect.  They'd give none to you or me in heartbeat, cockface.

[Razgovory]

But bottomline is they embarrassed Uncle Sam publically and the Military will make them pay.

I'd rather they weren't forced out.  Cooling their heels in the stockade should be sufficient.

It is curious that people seem angry that the guys pissed on a corpse, not that they killed the people in the first place.  If I had to chose between being killed by Marines or humiliated on camera with four guys pissing on me I think I'd go with the second one.

[CountDeMoney]

or humiliated on camera with four guys pissing on me I think I'd go with the second one.

You can probably make some good money on the side.  Imma jus sayin

[grumbler]

I am saying it is a human reaction to combat so not too terribly shocking.  They are praised for basically giving up their humanity and taking on a horrible burden so I do not have to.  So volunteering to become the sort of person who would kill some dudes and then piss on them is part of what makes them heroes.  I mean to the extent they are.

""We sleep soundly in our beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf." - W. Churchill.

True, that.

[grumbler]

So, you think a US Military CM does not have a jury?

If he thought this, he would be right.  There is no jury in a CM, just a panel.  They are all technically judges.  Been there, did that.

[Ed Anger]

This would make an awesome NCIS episode. If Ziva got pissed on.

[grumbler]

That is the problem.

IMO the best resolution would have been their NCO going ballistic and making their lives a misery for a few weeks, with the big wide world never finding out about it. These are young men in difficult circumstances commiting a foolish act, their lives may well be ruined now that is in the public sphere.

Agree.  Not sure that their lives will be ruined (if they get worse than a Bad Conduct Discharge I will be astonished and amazed).  BCDs revert to general discharges after some few years.  A GD doesn't ruin your life.

[11B4V]

I'm just annoyed by the cognitive dissonance of people saying on one hand that pissing on dead bodies is after all what killers do, but then the next day going on to praise these people as heroes and rolemodels. You can't have it both ways.

Sure you can.  I for one am glad that those Marines are not only fighting and killing the people who would want to support Al Qaeda and kill me, but they're pissing on their corpses as well.  Sorta like a golden exclamation point to the whole thing.

The Taliban deserve no quarter, deserve no respect.  They'd give none to you or me in heartbeat, cockface.

Well said

[11B4V]

So, you think a US Military CM does not have a jury?

If he thought this, he would be right.  There is no jury in a CM, just a panel.  They are all technically judges.  Been there, did that.

Close enough.

[C.C.R.]

I am somewhat astounded that there are military people out there who still don't apparently understand that doing shit like this and recording it is not a great plan.

After some thought (and some beers), I have to admit that these guys do indeed deserve to get bounced from The Corps -- not for mentally & emotionally dehumanizing the enemy to the point where they felt compelled to piss on their corpses after killing them (hell, give me a case of PBR, a couple of Black Sabbath LP's & eight hours alone in my garage & I'm at that level without getting shot at), but rather from being dumb enough to record it & put it on Teh Interwebs & making politicians have to explain it...