So what's the big fucking deal about Marines pissing on dead Taliban?

[11B4V]

Article 92—Failure to obey order or regulation

Maximum punishment.

(1) Violation or failure to obey lawful general order or regulation. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years.

(2) Violation of failure to obey other lawful order. Bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 6 months.


Note: For (1) and (2), above, the punishment set forth does not apply in the following cases: if in the absence of the order or regulation which was violated or not obeyed the accused would on the same facts be subject to conviction for another specific offense for which a lesser punishment is prescribed; or if the violation or failure to obey is a breach of restraint imposed as a result of an order. In these instances, the maximum punishment is that specifically prescribed else wherefor that particular offense.

(3) Dereliction in the performance of duties.


(A) Through neglect or culpable inefficiency. Forfeiture of two-thirds pay per month for 3 months and confinement for 3 months.

(B) Willful. Bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 6 months.

But bottomline is they embarrassed Uncle Sam publically and the Military will make them pay.

[dps]

What would they be charged with under UCMJ?  I'm drawing a blank, but I'm guessing there's something vague they'll be charged with.

Well in a civilian court it'd be indecent interference with human remains.

What would the penalty for that be in a Canadian court?

As I suggested, if a civilian here were to piss on a dead body on the side of the road, they'd probably just end up with a small fine levied against them in a civilian court.  Same for a member of the armed services if they were tried in a civilian court.  But in a court martial, I figure that these guys are going to end up doing some significant time in a military prison.  Zanza, for some reason, seems to think otherwise--that they'd be dealt with harshly by a civilian court but that a military court will let them off easy.

[11B4V]

Zanza, for some reason, seems to think otherwise--that they'd be dealt with harshly by a civilian court but that a military court will let them off easy.

He couldnt be more wrong. If I had a chioce to pick the US civilian system or CM. I'd take the civilian courts any day.

[Barrister]

What would they be charged with under UCMJ?  I'm drawing a blank, but I'm guessing there's something vague they'll be charged with.

Well in a civilian court it'd be indecent interference with human remains.

What would the penalty for that be in a Canadian court?

As I suggested, if a civilian here were to piss on a dead body on the side of the road, they'd probably just end up with a small fine levied against them in a civilian court.  Same for a member of the armed services if they were tried in a civilian court.  But in a court martial, I figure that these guys are going to end up doing some significant time in a military prison.  Zanza, for some reason, seems to think otherwise--that they'd be dealt with harshly by a civilian court but that a military court will let them off easy.

That is going to very much depend on the individual facts.  Pissing on a dead body that you happen to find at the side of the road might indeed get you a fine.  But of course this is a pretty obscure section, and the only times I can even really recall it being laid is when someone is taking 'liberties' with a corpse.

[Valmy]

He is coming from German history here.  His reference to a 'state within a state' is what people used to call the German military during the Kaiserreich and Weimar Republics.  Though I wouldn't want to stand before a Prussian-style military tribunal either.

[lustindarkness]

If this happened sometime before August 2011, why did it take so long for it to be "leaked" to the MSM? 

[11B4V]

If this happened sometime before August 2011, why did it take so long for it to be "leaked" to the MSM? 

ex-wife maybe???

[11B4V]

I have no doubt that if this vid had not gone viral and an NCO or Officer had seen this, they would have been told to knock it off or they would have joined them. It's only a big deal because it went public.

[Barrister]

I have no doubt that if this vid had not gone viral and an NCO or Officer had seen this, they would have been told to knock it off or they would have joined them. It's only a big deal because it went public.

It's never a big deal until you get caught.

[11B4V]

I have no doubt that if this vid had not gone viral and an NCO or Officer had seen this, they would have been told to knock it off or they would have joined them. It's only a big deal because it went public.

It's never a big deal until you get caught.

hehe...yea

[Zanza]

But really if a German soldier does something in Afghanistan he gets sent back to Germany to be tried in a civilian court?

Depends. Minor disciplinary issues are handled by the chain of command which would be in Afghanistan, major disciplinary cases are handled by special courts that are headed by a professional judge who is assisted by two military lay judges. Those courts are in Germany. For criminal stuff (e.g. desertion, mutiny, disobeyance of orders, officers mistreating their men, war crimes etc.) normal civilian criminal courts are responsible and both the judges and the prosecutor will be civilians.

Anyway, I don't really try to convince you that our way is better or anything. Each country has to find its own way. The concept of being judged by peers has its charms too.

[11B4V]

But really if a German soldier does something in Afghanistan he gets sent back to Germany to be tried in a civilian court?

Depends. Minor disciplinary issues are handled by the chain of command which would be in Afghanistan, major disciplinary cases are handled by special courts that are headed by a professional judge who is assisted by two military lay judges. Those courts are in Germany. For criminal stuff (e.g. desertion, mutiny, disobeyance of orders, officers mistreating their men, war crimes etc.) normal civilian criminal courts are responsible and both the judges and the prosecutor will be civilians.

Anyway, I don't really try to convince you that our way is better or anything. Each country has to find its own way. The concept of being judged by peers has its charms too.

So, you think a US Military CM does not have a jury?

[Richard Hakluyt]

I have no doubt that if this vid had not gone viral and an NCO or Officer had seen this, they would have been told to knock it off or they would have joined them. It's only a big deal because it went public.

That is the problem.

IMO the best resolution would have been their NCO going ballistic and making their lives a misery for a few weeks, with the big wide world never finding out about it. These are young men in difficult circumstances commiting a foolish act, their lives may well be ruined now that is in the public sphere.

[11B4V]

I have no doubt that if this vid had not gone viral and an NCO or Officer had seen this, they would have been told to knock it off or they would have joined them. It's only a big deal because it went public.

That is the problem.

IMO the best resolution would have been their NCO going ballistic and making their lives a misery for a few weeks, with the big wide world never finding out about it. These are young men in difficult circumstances commiting a foolish act, their lives may well be ruined now that is in the public sphere.

Every been around a bunch of Grunts? Keep living in a fantasy world.

[Ed Anger]

I would have built a pyramid of skulls.