So what's the big fucking deal about Marines pissing on dead Taliban?

[OttoVonBismarck]

Meh, I dislike the military so I don't really care if they are considered stupid killers in the end. I'm just annoyed by the cognitive dissonance of people saying on one hand that pissing on dead bodies is after all what killers do, but then the next day going on to praise these people as heroes and rolemodels. You can't have it both ways.

I remember during my time in service we were very concerned about what raging faggot Pollack lawyers thought about us.

[Razgovory]

You disagreed with Gups possible motives for signing up.  I wondered what yours was.  Mine was "to be useful".  They didn't want me around when they found out I was crazy.

Gups didn't sign up either Raz.

Yes, but I wasn't questioning Gups opinion, as his statement seemed quite reasonable.  Hell, I don't know what Gups does or did.  I just found out today he's from Cornwall.  I thought he was from India or Pakistan or something.

[Valmy]

To counter the state within the state effect, I prefer having the military being subject to the normal civilian judiciary. It's part of the oversight of civil society over the military.

Huh?  Surely the laws regarding civilian conduct and the rules for soldierly conduct are not the same.  I mean it is not a crime to disobey orders for the civvies.

[dps]

To counter the state within the state effect, I prefer having the military being subject to the normal civilian judiciary. It's part of the oversight of civil society over the military.

Huh?  Surely the laws regarding civilian conduct and the rules for soldierly conduct are not the same.  I mean it is not a crime to disobey orders for the civvies.

Hence my point that the Marines involved would be much better off being tried in a Western civilian court than by a court martial, even if Zanza doesn't realize it.

[Zanza]

To counter the state within the state effect, I prefer having the military being subject to the normal civilian judiciary. It's part of the oversight of civil society over the military.

Huh?  Surely the laws regarding civilian conduct and the rules for soldierly conduct are not the same.  I mean it is not a crime to disobey orders for the civvies.

As far as I am aware, other professions aren't exclusively judged by their peers, but rather by the general system of courts. May be different in common law countries.

[Zanza]

Hence my point that the Marines involved would be much better off being tried in a Western civilian court than by a court martial, even if Zanza doesn't realize it.

Why? The law would still be the same.

[Berkut]

It will be blown out of proportion but that does not make the act acceptable. They are undermining the war effort with this sort of bs, and filming it in this age of instant communications was a stupid error. They will be for an unpleasant time when they go to their interviews with their CO.

Completely agree. It's just the sheer stupidity of not understanding the consequences of one's actions that's astounding here.

Gotta agree with Marty, no matter how much it pains me to do so.

[Valmy]

other professions aren't exclusively judged by their peers, but rather by the general system of courts. May be different in common law countries.

Other professions usually do not lock people up simply for disobeying orders.  Or do they?  I know you Germans have this hardcore reputation.

[Valmy]

Gotta agree with Marty, no matter how much it pains me to do so.

I can understand how it is stupid I was just confused why it was astounding.  You see the psychological struggles Siege goes through.

[Barrister]

To counter the state within the state effect, I prefer having the military being subject to the normal civilian judiciary. It's part of the oversight of civil society over the military.

Huh?  Surely the laws regarding civilian conduct and the rules for soldierly conduct are not the same.  I mean it is not a crime to disobey orders for the civvies.

As far as I am aware, other professions aren't exclusively judged by their peers, but rather by the general system of courts. May be different in common law countries.

The legal profession is self-governing.   

[Berkut]

I disagree. There are thousands, upon thousands, of other soldiers, presently, and in history, who didn't feel the need to piss on other soldeirs. Those are heroes, yeah. These ones are just fucked up.

Well when you are brutalized you do fucked up things.  Many did less fucked up things, and many did much more fucked up stuff.

I think that is largely true, but there is another aspect to this beyond how it looks.

What worries me when I see things like this is that it is indicative of a lack of discipline. Now, it may not be significant, just a one off thing where some guys were goofing around letting off steam in what seems a rather bizarre and disrespectful manner to civilians (on the other hand, killing people is pretty fucking bizarre too to civilians, so I get that they live in an environment where the macabre becomes routine). ON the other hand, the US military prides itself on being a professional, volunteer force with pretty serious standards of professionalism and behavior.

Pissing on dead Taliban is not as bad a break down in discipline as My Lai. Nor is it as bad a breakdown as murdering some girl and then making it look like the Taliban did it, or as bad as shooting your ex-NFL star buddy, nor is it as bad even as stacking naked POWs in pyramids. But all those things are on the same path that comes from lack of discipline, if at different points on the path, so it is concerning when you hear about it, because I am betting there is other shit going on that you don't hear about.

So to me, crap like this is concerning, even if I ignore all the hand wringing and wailing from those who just plain hate the military and are looking for something to be offended by.

[Berkut]

Gotta agree with Marty, no matter how much it pains me to do so.

I can understand how it is stupid I was just confused why it was astounding.  You see the psychological struggles Siege goes through.

I am somewhat astounded that there are military people out there who still don't apparently understand that doing shit like this and recording it is not a great plan.

[Zanza]

other professions aren't exclusively judged by their peers, but rather by the general system of courts. May be different in common law countries.

Other professions usually do not lock people up simply for disobeying orders.  Or do they?  I know you Germans have this hardcore reputation.

I have no idea about the US legal system, but I would be surprised if there aren't types of professional malpractice for other professions that can get you locked up.

[The Brain]

I chose to do military service. No way in hell I was a hero.

[Barrister]

I chose to do military service. No way in hell I was a hero.

I was speaking of countries whose militaries actually, you know, fight people once in a while.