GOP Primary Megathread!

[CountDeMoney]

Remains to be seen whether he will keep his promise to "prevent Iran from aquiring nuclear weapons through forceful diplomacy."

True enough.  The forceful diplomacy's been working though.  Though again this is of a rather different nature.

Doesn't matter if it's the GOP, the Dems, the Easter Bunny or Christ and his Dancing Apostles:  no one will be able to prevent Iran from getting nukular weapons, and no one will be above the blame.

And if anybody's going to get the bill, it's Cokehead Dubya for not dealing with it from 2003-2008, instead of emboldening Tehran's aspirations by giving them Iraq on a platter.

[Admiral Yi]

Flesh this one out for me.

Before the Ohio primary he said he would renegotiate NAFTA to include workers' rights (i.e. raise Mexican labor costs).  After Ohio he said it was "overheated campaign rhetoric."

These are related to him as a candidate they're totally irrelevant.  They're totally different from saying I will, as President, close Gitmo and not doing it.  Or saying I will, as President, not sign any deficit reduction that increases revenues.

OK, didn't know we were ring-fencing campaign promises about the campaign.

Well first we'll need to see if he runs on that in 2012.

OK, didn't know campaign promises reset at reelection.

[Sheilbh]

Before the Ohio primary he said he would renegotiate NAFTA to include workers' rights (i.e. raise Mexican labor costs).  After Ohio he said it was "overheated campaign rhetoric."

So he walked it back during the campaign?  It's obviously not a promise then.

OK, didn't know we were ring-fencing campaign promises about the campaign.

My point is about whether candidates try to fulfil their promises as Presidents.

OK, didn't know campaign promises reset at reelection.

Well obviously

[Admiral Yi]

lol, nice try.  Like he's going to unilaterally disarm.

Too funny the right's actually bitching about that one.

My bad.  I didn't know the topic was "campaign promises that were painless to keep."

I haven't heard any bitching from the right on this one, mostly from the mainstream media.  But then again I don't pick up much commentary from the right, so they could be bitching their heads off.

[Admiral Yi]

So he walked it back during the campaign?  It's obviously not a promise then.

Obviously.

[Sheilbh]

So he walked it back during the campaign?  It's obviously not a promise then.

Obviously.

If you say it once you're committed, and for both terms?

I think if you've publicly walked back a promise it's absurd to then be judged for not delivering on it.

[CountDeMoney]

lol, nice try.  Like he's going to unilaterally disarm.

Too funny the right's actually bitching about that one.

My bad.  I didn't know the topic was "campaign promises that were painless to keep."

I haven't heard any bitching from the right on this one, mostly from the mainstream media.  But then again I don't pick up much commentary from the right, so they could be bitching their heads off.

You don't watch television anyway, so you didn't see Obama's interview last week with WBTV (CBS) where the interviewer tried calling him on it.

So sit on it, Potsy.

[Admiral Yi]

If you say it once you're committed, and for both terms?

Unless you qualify it.

I think if you've publicly walked back a promise it's absurd to then be judged for not delivering on it.

I think once people have cast a vote based in part on your promise then not keeping it is welching on a deal.

[Razgovory]

I can't think of many he's broken.

Renegotiate NAFTA.

Not exceed federal spending limit on 08 campaign.

Not use Super Pacs for current campaign.

If he wins as expected against Romney he will have to break the promise about no tax increases on people earning less than 200 K.

Remains to be seen whether he will keep his promise to "prevent Iran from aquiring nuclear weapons through forceful diplomacy."

Why don't you give us examples of him actually saying these things.

[Admiral Yi]

Why don't you give us examples of him actually saying these things.

Because it would be a trivial and meaningless excercise.

[Sheilbh]

Unless you qualify it.

Or, as is the case here, publicly backed off from it?

However I've looked up your example, as best I can, because I can't find anything about that specific promise.  The Politifact site I mentioned has this subject as 'Include environmental and labor standards in trade agreements'.  They've rated it a compromise.  They've been included in new trade deals and apparently the Administration's still advocating for stricter environmental and labour provisions in NAFTA, but short of renegotiation.

But I'm not sure what the promise was regarding renegotiation.  But I'd suggest that this seems more like an example of what I've been arguing, that Presidents generally try to deliver on their promises so it's worth paying attention and not just cynically dismissing everything said in a primary.

[Admiral Yi]

Or, as is the case here, publicly backed off from it?

The qualification thing was about your one term only thing, which was about tax hikes, not NAFTA.

[/quote]But I'm not sure what the promise was regarding renegotiation.  But I'd suggest that this seems more like an example of what I've been arguing, that Presidents generally try to deliver on their promises so it's worth paying attention and not just cynically dismissing everything said in a primary.
[/quote]

The promise was "I will renegotiate NAFTA to include labor rights."

[Sheilbh]

The promise was "I will renegotiate NAFTA to include labor rights."

I'll take your word.  It, with Gitmo, is a broken promise.  The other 75% he's trying to keep.

[derspiess]

Edit:  Anyway none of these really dispute my point that actually politicians don't routinely promise things in the heat of the primary and then ignore them.  Generally politicians try to enact their promises.  I've just looked up the study that found that 75% of promises made by Presidents from Wilson to Carter, as candidates, were kept or they tried to keep them.  They've found 'that presidents invariably attempt to carry out their promises; the main reason some pledges are not redeemed is congressional opposition, not presidential flip-flopping'. 

Similarly if you look at the Politifact thing they're tracking 500 promises Obama made, he's broken around 65.  He's kept around 170 and another 160 are 'in the works', 50 have been done as 'compromises' and around 70 are 'stalled' in Congress or whatever.

I'd say 65 broken promises is a lot.  To me the raw number of promises broken is more important than the percentage.  And I'm not trying to dump on Obama-- I was just using him as a recent example.

[derspiess]

Obama has broken several of his pledges, for better or worse.

I can't think of many he's broken.  As a rule politicians do actually try and follow through on what they promise - there's actually empirical research that demonstrates this and you can see it, in Obama's case, in that factcheck tally.

Gitmo.

Oh yeah, that one's keeping everyone up nights.

Note that I did say "for better or worse".  File this in the "better", but it's still a broken promise.

The broken promise that bothers me the most is his transparency pledge.  It took him just a few days in office to shit all over that one.