Last U.S. troops leave Iraq, ending war

[Valmy]

Well, that could have gone better.

Maybe, but it sure as hell could have gone alot worse.  It is a good thing whenever our people get taken out of there.

[Sheilbh]

Disagree with Marty that wars only end when the antagonists sign a peace treaty.

Good I never said anythin of that sort.

The war ends when one of the parties is destroyed or surrenders, or the parties sign a peace treaty.

So when was the end of the Iraq war? 

Edit:  Yesterday the largest party in Parliament, Ayad Allawi's party, walked out and apparently are now boycotting Parliament.  They're the main Sunni party.  Surprisingly unrelatedly, Maliki's issued an arrest warrant for the Sunni Vice President on allegations of terrorism (in particular that his security detail was plotting to assasinate Maliki and that he was the mastermind)

[Admiral Yi]

So when was the end of the Iraq war? 

I give up, when?

[Camerus]

It may be a misnomer to say that this marks the end of the war.  However, it is certainly an important milestone, psychologically and militarily, and quibbling over what to call it is probably not the most important thing to take away from the article.

[Tamas]

I imagine that the Iranians will be rolling in within the month.

Ok Martim.

How is Iranian dominance not the most likely scenario?

The country is choke full of shiitas, with an added minority of sunnins and kurds, and these three has been happily opressing and murdering each other.
They did so even while the US military scrambled left and right, trying to contain a shitstorm their government unleashed upon them with the invasion order.

It only stopped when the US started paying tribute... I mean started financing local tribes to keep the peace.

[jimmy olsen]

I imagine that the Iranians will be rolling in within the month.

Ok Martim.

How is Iranian dominance not the most likely scenario?

The country is choke full of shiitas, with an added minority of sunnins and kurds, and these three has been happily opressing and murdering each other.
They did so even while the US military scrambled left and right, trying to contain a shitstorm their government unleashed upon them with the invasion order.

It only stopped when the US started paying tribute... I mean started financing local tribes to keep the peace.

Do all Sunni get along? Do all Christians?

Iraq has twice as much oil as Iran and thus has the potential to be very rich once they get back on their feet. Why would a population of rich Arab Shiites want to be told what to do by Iranian Shiites?

[Tamas]

I imagine that the Iranians will be rolling in within the month.

Ok Martim.

How is Iranian dominance not the most likely scenario?

The country is choke full of shiitas, with an added minority of sunnins and kurds, and these three has been happily opressing and murdering each other.
They did so even while the US military scrambled left and right, trying to contain a shitstorm their government unleashed upon them with the invasion order.

It only stopped when the US started paying tribute... I mean started financing local tribes to keep the peace.

Do all Sunni get along? Do all Christians?

Iraq has twice as much oil as Iran and thus has the potential to be very rich once they get back on their feet. Why would a population of rich Arab Shiites want to be told what to do by Iranian Shiites?

Because they'll need power and stability to get and keep those riches.
Sure, shiites may very well introduce a Saddam-like authoriter regime to keep everyone in line, but then who would be their only ally in the region?
Yes.

[Valmy]

How is Iranian dominance not the most likely scenario?

Because the Iranians are a bunch of incompetent idiots mostly.

[Sheilbh]

I give up, when?

I was interested in your view.  You said that this isn't the end of the war and Marty's description of treaties or total destruction of enemies ending wars wasn't helpful.  So when did the war end?  Has it ended?

[Admiral Yi]

I was interested in your view.  You said that this isn't the end of the war and Marty's description of treaties or total destruction of enemies ending wars wasn't helpful.  So when did the war end?  Has it ended?

No clue.

My statement about wars ending was based on the Korean War and the three Arab-Israeli wars, none of which ended in the ways mentioned by Marty.

[Valmy]

Because they'll need power and stability to get and keep those riches.
Sure, shiites may very well introduce a Saddam-like authoriter regime to keep everyone in line, but then who would be their only ally in the region?
Yes.

You are moving the goal posts here.

Being potential allies of Iran is not the same as becoming an Iranian puppet or having Iranian forces roll in and take over.

[Fate]

Disagree with Marty that wars only end when the antagonists sign a peace treaty.

Good I never said anythin of that sort.

The war ends when one of the parties is destroyed or surrenders, or the parties sign a peace treaty.

So when was the end of the Iraq war? 

Edit:  Yesterday the largest party in Parliament, Ayad Allawi's party, walked out and apparently are now boycotting Parliament.  They're the main Sunni party.  Surprisingly unrelatedly, Maliki's issued an arrest warrant for the Sunni Vice President on allegations of terrorism (in particular that his security detail was plotting to assasinate Maliki and that he was the mastermind)

Why isn't any of this in the news? Or did I miss the front page drudge story...

[Sheilbh]

Why isn't any of this in the news? Or did I miss the front page drudge story...

The walk out is actually mentioned in Tim's article.  They've now expanded it into a boycott.

The arrest warrant story's here:
http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/12/17/183118.html
It's been confirmed by the Minister of Interior.  That story also has allegations that the government have placed armoured vehicles outside the homes of senior Iraqiya party members.

This is the assasination attempt he's being blamed for, you'll note they're effectively accusing him of being al-Qaeda:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=143063072

It's not in the news because Iraq isn't in the news and for the UK and the US it was always all about us.  I worry that we won't learn any lessons from Iraq because there's still very little interest or acknowledgement of the Iraqi perspective.

[DGuller]

Iraqis sure don't waste any time.  I guess the VP's trial has already been scheduled for Wednesday, with an execution to follow on Thursday.

[derspiess]

Iraqis sure don't waste any time.  I guess the VP's trial has already been scheduled for Wednesday, with an execution to follow on Thursday.

Heh.