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Last U.S. troops leave Iraq, ending war

Started by jimmy olsen, December 18, 2011, 02:21:56 AM

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The Minsky Moment

#45
Quote from: Martinus on December 18, 2011, 04:27:16 AM
"Ending war"?

Does it mean:
(i) terrorism was annihilated, or
(ii) terrorism has surrendered, or
(iii) America negotiated and signed a peace treaty with terrorism, or
(iv) America unilaterally and unconditionally capitulated to terrorism, or
(v) there was no real war and all of this was America's PR bullshit?

There never was a war against "terrorism", there was a war aganst "Terror"

And BTW America won.  Terror suffered a fatal seizure, and was replaced after a brief leadership struggle by Serious Anxiety.  Sadly, the moderates backing Mild Trepidation did not prevail.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Darth Wagtaros

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 19, 2011, 06:59:56 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 18, 2011, 04:27:16 AM
"Ending war"?

Does it mean:
(i) terrorism was annihilated, or
(ii) terrorism has surrendered, or
(iii) America negotiated and signed a peace treaty with terrorism, or
(iv) America unilaterally and unconditionally capitulated to terrorism, or
(v) there was no real war and all of this was America's PR bullshit?

There never was a war against "terrorism", there was a ware aganst "Terror"

And BTW America won.  Terror suffered a fatal seizure, and was replaced after a brief leadership struggle by Serious Anxiety.  Sadly, the moderates backing Mild Trepidation did not prevail.
Victory is ours.
PDH!

Capetan Mihali

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 19, 2011, 06:59:56 PMTerror suffered a fatal seizure, and was replaced after a brief leadership struggle by Serious Anxiety.

No role for High Anxiety?   :(

"The internet's completely over. [...] The internet's like MTV. At one time MTV was hip and suddenly it became outdated. Anyway, all these computers and digital gadgets are no good. They just fill your head with numbers and that can't be good for you."
-- Prince, 2010. (R.I.P.)

Ideologue

Quote from: Sheilbh on December 19, 2011, 12:41:08 PM
It's not in the news because Iraq isn't in the news and for the UK and the US it was always all about us.  I worry that we won't learn any lessons from Iraq because there's still very little interest or acknowledgement of the Iraqi perspective.

"I have a vested interest in being ungovernable."  There, I cracked the code.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Ender

Brutal occupation of civilian populations FTW.


Kleves

Here we go.
QuoteBaghdad (CNN) -- A wave of explosions in Baghdad Thursday killed at least 63 people and wounded 185, authorities say, raising fears about the stability of the country amid political upheaval that threatens to undo Iraq's government just days after U.S. troops withdrew from the country.
Nine car bombs and six roadside bombs went off and a mortar round was fired in a two-hour period, targeting residential, commercial and government districts in the Iraqi capital, two police officials told CNN.

The deadliest attack was a suicide car bombing outside the offices of the Integrity Commission, the country's main anti-corruption body. At least 23 people were killed and 43 others were wounded in the explosion, which also damaged part of the building, police officials said.

The attacks targeted civilians across all walks of life. One took place at a market. Another, at a school as children were arriving.

CNN's Arwa Damon in Baghdad described it as a "nightmare scenario," eerily reminiscent of earlier days of the Iraq war.

The violence comes as Iraq's Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish political leaders square off over a warrant issued for the arrest of Vice President Tariq al-Hashimi, who is accused of organizing his security detail into a death squad that targeted government and military officials.

Shiite Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki has demanded that Kurdish lawmakers hand over the Sunni vice president, who has denied the charges and refuses to return to Baghdad from northern Iraq's semi-autonomous Kurdish region.

Finance Minister Rafie al-Issawi told CNN he does not believe the violence is directly connected to the latest political developments, "but there is a good environment for terrorists to be active in these bad circumstances."

Terrorists "will justify their criminal activities" and argue that the solution to Iraq's woes "isn't in the political process," said al-Issawi, a member of the Sunni-backed Iraqiya minority political bloc.

The seemingly coordinated explosions Thursday struck during the height of morning rush hour, hitting a number of Baghdad's primarily mixed Sunni-Shiite neighborhoods.

There have been no immediate claims of responsibility, though the attacks resemble previous bombings that have been claimed by both Sunni and Shiite insurgents as well as al Qaeda in Iraq.

At the Medical City hospital in central Baghdad, doctors treated the wounded whose bodies were peppered with what appeared to be shrapnel from explosions.

Images of bloodied, battered bodies and destroyed storefronts and homes were broadcast on Iraqi television stations.

While violence in Iraq has fallen off in recent years, the latest spate of attacks are among the worst since August when a series of coordinated bombings killed at least 75 people in 17 Iraqi cities.

The attacks come amid heightened sectarian tensions, raising fears that the political turmoil in Iraq could spark a return of sectarian bloodshed that nearly ripped the country apart during the height of the war.

Al-Hashimi has denied the charges against him, saying the accusations are politically motivated amid the rivalry between his Sunni-backed Iraqiya minority political bloc and al-Maliki's Shiite majority bloc.

The warrant for al-Hashimi's arrest was issued just days after Iraqiya suspended its participation in Parliament, claiming it was being cut out of the political process by al-Maliki.

The prime minister has said failing to hand over al-Hashimi or allowing him to flee to another country "could cause problems."

Al-Issawi, the finance minister, told CNN that before U.S. troops left, Iraqi officials made clear their fears of what could happen.

"So many times we warned the Americans, both the political and security situation (are) very fragile. Unfortunately, no one listened."

In a speech this month about bringing the U.S. troops home, President Barack Obama said, "Iraq is not a perfect place. It has many challenges ahead. But we're leaving behind a sovereign, stable and self-reliant Iraq, with a representative government that was elected by its people. "

"There can be no fuller expression of America's support for self-determination than our leaving Iraq to its people. That says something about who we are," Obama added.
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

Berkut

"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
0 rows returned

Valmy

Quote from: Berkut on December 22, 2011, 11:08:13 AM
Now the real test for Iraq starts.

Yep.  But remember Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Darth Wagtaros

Quote from: Berkut on December 22, 2011, 11:08:13 AM
Now the real test for Iraq starts.
Just remember, this is all somehow our fault.
PDH!

Berkut

Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 22, 2011, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 22, 2011, 11:08:13 AM
Now the real test for Iraq starts.
Just remember, this is all somehow our fault.

Unless it works out. Then it will be in spite of our meddling.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
0 rows returned

mongers

Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 22, 2011, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 22, 2011, 11:08:13 AM
Now the real test for Iraq starts.
Just remember, this is all somehow our fault.

Glad to hear you're finally admitting it.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Darth Wagtaros

Quote from: mongers on December 22, 2011, 01:16:15 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 22, 2011, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 22, 2011, 11:08:13 AM
Now the real test for Iraq starts.
Just remember, this is all somehow our fault.

Glad to hear you're finally admitting it.
Of course, had the Euros not gone around colonizing these poor bastards none of this would have happened. 
PDH!

Valmy

Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 22, 2011, 01:18:10 PM
Of course, had the Euros not gone around colonizing these poor bastards none of this would have happened. 

I blame the Medes.  The place has never been the same since the fall of Nineveh.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Ideologue

Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Viking


And So It Begins



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16283562

QuoteIraqi PM asks Kurds to hand over Vice-President Hashemi

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki has urged the Kurdish authorities in northern Iraq to hand over fugitive Vice-President Tariq al-Hashemi.

An arrest warrant was issued for Iraq's most senior Sunni Arab politician on Monday on terrorism charges.

Mr Hashemi denies the charges and his entire political bloc is boycotting parliament and the cabinet.

Tensions between Sunnis and the Shia Arab majority appear to be coming to a head, a BBC correspondent says.

Mr Hashemi is currently in Irbil, under the protection of the Kurdistan regional government. The warrant was issued a day after US troops pulled out of Iraq.

US Vice-President Joe Biden has urged Iraqi leaders to work together to avert renewed sectarian strife.

Mr Maliki, a Shia Arab, said on live TV that he would dismiss ministers belonging to Mr Hashemi's bloc, al-Iraqiyya, if they did not lift their boycott.

He invited all political factions to hold talks to try to resolve the crisis.

Otherwise, he said, Iraq could in future have a majority government which any person or bloc would be welcome to join to "take the country forward in a positive direction".

In a statement quoted by Reuters news agency, al-Iraqiyya rejected the invitation to talks, saying Mr Maliki himself was "the main reason for the crisis and the problem".

Asked about Mr Hashemi's call for the Arab League to oversee any investigation into the allegations, Mr Maliki said this was a criminal issue in Iraq.

He saw no reason why the Arab League or the UN should intervene in an Iraqi criminal case, he said.

"We do not accept any interference in Iraqi justice," he added. "We gave Saddam a fair trial, and we will give Hashemi a fair trial too."

Mr Hashemi denies allegations that he funded attacks on government and security officials during Iraq's bloody insurgency.

On Monday evening, Iraqi television showed purported confessions from his bodyguards, but the vice-president says that they were false and "politicised".

He told reporters in Irbil on Tuesday: "I swear to God that I never committed a sin when it comes to Iraqi blood."

He said he would be willing to face trial in Kurdistan.

Mr Maliki went on TV after speaking on the phone to Mr Biden.

The US vice-president "stressed the urgent need for the prime minister and the leaders of the other major blocs to meet and work through their differences together", the White House said.

Mr Maliki leads a government of national unity in a fragile power-sharing deal that has lasted a year.

Iraq has a majority Shia population, but the areas adjacent to the Syrian border are almost entirely Sunni-dominated.

BBC Middle East correspondent Jim Muir says Sunni-majority provinces which had previously shown little interest in setting up Kurdistan-style autonomous areas have begun to embrace that idea.

This worries the prime minister, who fears an alliance between Sunni areas of Iraq and a possible future Sunni-controlled Syria, should the government of Bashar al-Assad fall, our correspondent adds.

I suppose they could have waited a few days before going after each other like that.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.