Americas Elect 2012 - the Not Party

[Jacob]

Which part?

That he doesn't consider making things work an inspiring ideal.

[Neil]

And?  Those are irrelevant and small conflicts that took place in the past.  There's a future ahead of you.

I won't live to see it.

And I fear that the West as a civilization won't either, unless we adopt a somewhat more community-oriented approach.

[MadImmortalMan]

States always spend themselves into bankruptcy eventually. For whatever reason, the human race simply cannot accomplish balancing the opposing demands of state expenditure with revenues. We always demand more from the government than we're willing to pay for. In the end, the inflation tax always evens things out. It won't ever change.

[The Brain]

And?  Those are irrelevant and small conflicts that took place in the past.  There's a future ahead of you.

I won't live to see it.

And I fear that the West as a civilization won't either, unless we adopt a somewhat more community-oriented approach.

OK, Saloth.

[Sheilbh]

Yes, but I guess my point is that your ideology doesn't have to be based on a fiction.

Okay.  I think ideology and fiction's kind-of interchangeable - but that fiction's not a dirty word.  One of the most common words in political campaigns and journalism now is 'narrative' and I think it describes something that's always existed.  The best politicians tap into our need for a fiction.  They tell us where we are, how we got here and where we should go.  I think most of our thoughts on those things, that shape how we respond to different political or social visions, are, like all stories, things we get on our parents' knees to a large extent.  Similarly I think that probably over 99% of a person's politics or social views are sort of gut instinct emotional responses that we later try to rationalise and integrate into a wider system - an ideology or a fiction.  Good politicians and theorists just provide a decent  framework that others can respond to.  Marx is just a more beardy and political George Lucas.

More widely it seems to me that the human instinct is to try and generalise and impose some sort of order on things, and so we make sense of the world through a sort of fiction.

And, incidentally, the technocratic, pragmatic, apolitical, political scientist ideal is as much of a story.  It's just HG Wells or something :p

[Admiral Yi]

The basic problem Shelf is that some narratives predict outcomes that don't happen.

[fhdz]

Okay.  I think ideology and fiction's kind-of interchangeable - but that fiction's not a dirty word.  One of the most common words in political campaigns and journalism now is 'narrative' and I think it describes something that's always existed.  The best politicians tap into our need for a fiction.  They tell us where we are, how we got here and where we should go.  I think most of our thoughts on those things, that shape how we respond to different political or social visions, are, like all stories, things we get on our parents' knees to a large extent.  Similarly I think that probably over 99% of a person's politics or social views are sort of gut instinct emotional responses that we later try to rationalise and integrate into a wider system - an ideology or a fiction.  Good politicians and theorists just provide a decent  framework that others can respond to.  Marx is just a more beardy and political George Lucas.

Yes, but there's a difference between a story which has an outcome that is possible and a story which has an outcome that is, while perhaps not impossible, so improbable that attempting it is destined for failure.

And, incidentally, the technocratic, pragmatic, apolitical, political scientist ideal is as much of a story.  It's just HG Wells or something :p

I'm sold. It's a great page-turner and we can actually get to the end of the book without all the characters dying in that one.

[Razgovory]

States always spend themselves into bankruptcy eventually. For whatever reason, the human race simply cannot accomplish balancing the opposing demands of state expenditure with revenues. We always demand more from the government than we're willing to pay for. In the end, the inflation tax always evens things out. It won't ever change.

I suppose that's true but has nothing to do with humanity.  Just probability.

[Razgovory]

And?  Those are irrelevant and small conflicts that took place in the past.  There's a future ahead of you.

I won't live to see it.

And I fear that the West as a civilization won't either, unless we adopt a somewhat more community-oriented approach.

Fortunately we have a community organizer to lead us.

[Neil]

And?  Those are irrelevant and small conflicts that took place in the past.  There's a future ahead of you.

I won't live to see it.

And I fear that the West as a civilization won't either, unless we adopt a somewhat more community-oriented approach.

Fortunately we have a community organizer to lead us.

He may be your president, but he doesn't really seem to lead.

[fhdz]

I suppose that's true but has nothing to do with humanity.  Just probability.

Well, it says at least one thing about humanity - while as individuals we may be austere and thrifty (or big spenders, conversely), get us in a group and the tendency is virtually always to spend rather than save.

[Razgovory]

I suppose that's true but has nothing to do with humanity.  Just probability.

Well, it says at least one thing about humanity - while as individuals we may be austere and thrifty (or big spenders, conversely), get us in a group and the tendency is virtually always to spend rather than save.

If there is a chance of something happening (such as going broke), it will happen eventually given enough time.  I don't think we as individuals are particularly austere and thrifty anyway.  It seems absurd that we expect our government to be so.

[Siege]

Has anyone heard of this movement? What are the chances that it will continue and grow beyond 2012? I like the idea, but I question it's longevity.

http://www.americanselect.org/

So, the Demoncrats know they are going to lose, so they now want people to vote for a third party, or not party, to take votes from the GOP.
Great strategy.

I predict the next elections a landslide victory for the GOP, no matter how many "Not Party"s the Dems create.

[fhdz]

I don't think we as individuals are particularly austere and thrifty anyway.

Some are, some aren't.

[Razgovory]

I don't think we as individuals are particularly austere and thrifty anyway.

Some are, some aren't.

I reckon that's the same with governments.