Penn State Goings-On

[frunk]

I don't see how punishing the future members of the program is useful. They had nothing to do with it.

Then the only answer is to do nothing.

Except all of the perpetrators except for Paterno are still around.  Spanier, Schultz and Curly should be on the hook for this, and punishing the school should run a distant second to nailing their asses.

[Barrister]

I don't see how punishing the future members of the program is useful. They had nothing to do with it.

Then the only answer is to do nothing.

Except all of the perpetrators except for Paterno are still around.  Spanier, Schultz and Curly should be on the hook for this, and punishing the school should run a distant second to nailing their asses.

I suspect that the NCAA has no authority over individuals employed by schools, but rather only over the school itself.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Except all of the perpetrators except for Paterno are still around.  Spanier, Schultz and Curly should be on the hook for this, and punishing the school should run a distant second to nailing their asses.

The NCAA doesn't put people in jail.

[frunk]

The NCAA doesn't put people in jail.

Then why are they involved in what should be criminal proceedings at all?

[Valmy]

Then why are they involved in what should be criminal proceedings at all?

I don't think they are involved in the criminal proceedings.

I suspect that the NCAA has no authority over individuals employed by schools, but rather only over the school itself.

This.  They can only punish the member institutions not individuals.  Man would things be different if they could.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Then why are they involved in what should be criminal proceedings at all?

They aren't.

[sbr]

I don't see how punishing the future members of the program is useful. They had nothing to do with it.

Then the only answer is to do nothing.

Except all of the perpetrators except for Paterno are still around.  Spanier, Schultz and Curly should be on the hook for this, and punishing the school should run a distant second to nailing their asses.

They are already facing charges.

The NCAA (National Collegiate Athletics Association) only has jurisdiction over athletics.  The Penn State Athletic Department was completely out of control and they should be brought back down.  I have no problem with the penalties, there needs to be punishment for past actions and deterrents to others in the future.

Also PSU's cut of the conference Bowl money is going to charity.

The conference announced the forfeiture of league bowl revenue Penn State would've received will instead be donated to Big Ten regional charities dedicated to the protection of children.

[Neil]

I'm curious about a couple of things...I thought in 1998 the police were somehow notified and did an investigation, but for some reason didn't pursue anything. In 2001 Sandusky was seen in the shower. With that timeline, why punish back to 1998? Was Joe Paterno supposed to lead a lynch mob against the guy?

Also, Penn State is a non profit educational institution, supported by taxpayers. Football scandal aside, it is apparently a good one. What good does transferring $60m from it to other charities do (like say, the second mile)? I know Penn State wouldn't do so because of the PR implications, but giving lower income Pennsylvania students $60m in scholarship opportunities to Penn State would seem to be a very solid charitable gift.

Because Timmay-people love to make bad decisions, that's why.

Still, maybe the NCAA should take some scholarships from the police, too.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Ganim, the reporter who won the Pulitzer for her reporting of this shit, has broken down the sanctions pretty well:

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/07/penn_state_sanctions_what_they.html

The NCAA imposed several sanctions on Penn State's football program after an unconventional investigation that relied heavily on the criminal case against Jerry Sandusky and the internal university report that suggested there was a cover-up.

Here's a breakdown of the sanctions and what they mean.

Vacated wins between 1998 and 2011: This means 111 wins are taken away from the university and longtime head football coach Joe Paterno loses his title as the winningest coach in major college football.

He had that ranking for just about eight months. His 409th win came a week before Sandusky's arrest, and about 10 days before he was fired by the university board of trustees.

Paterno is now 12th on the list, behind Florida State's Bobby Bowden and Alabama's Bear Bryant.

There are hundreds of players who were on the team exclusively during those years and now have no recorded wins.

The vacated wins start in the 1998 season because earlier that year was the first report of allegations against Sandusky that were known by Joe Paterno, athletic director Tim Curley, vice president Gary Schultz and president Graham Spanier.

A $60 million fine: It's the equivalent of one year of gross revenue from football at Penn State.

But the NCAA specifically said that the university can't take the money from other sports programs -- all except basketball are funded by football -- and can't take it from academics.

Penn State president Rodney Erickson has pledge to make sure that tax money, tuition dollars and donations won't be used to pay for any scandal-related expenses.

The fine can be paid over a five year period, which would mean $12 million a year.

Erickson and university spokespersons didn't immediately answer an email about where the money will be found.

The NCAA will take the money and put it into an endowment to help victims of child sex abuse.

Four years of no bowls: Two hours after the sanctions were announced, the Big Ten said that because Penn State won't be able to play in a bowl, it will give up its share of conference bowl revenue.

That's about $13 million, and that money will be donated, the Big Ten Council of Presidents and Chancellors said.

The Big Ten will also ban Penn State from participating in conference championship games.

Both directly affect the compensation of Bill O'Brien, who had in his five-year contract that he would get a bonus -- 11 percent -- for going to a bowl game and a bonus -- 8 percent -- for leading his team to the conference championship game.

Not going to a bowl game also keeps the team from 12 days of practice that they would otherwise get after its last regular season game.

O'Brien called the sanctions "very harsh," but said he would do everything he could to comply and make Penn State a national leader in ethics, compliance and operational excellence.

"I knew when I accepted the position that there would be tough times ahead," he said. "But I am committed for the long term to Penn State and our student athletes. I was then and I remain convinced that our student athletes are the best in the country."

Loss of scholarships, and possibly players: Twenty overall scholarships are lost for four years, meaning the team has only 65 instead of 85 to distribute.
All football players are given the opportunity to transfer and immediately be eligible to play at any other institution.
Players who already have scholarships can keep them as long as they remain eligible.

Five-year probation: The team is under probation for the term of coach Bill O'Brien's contract.
During that time, there will be an on-campus integrity monitor who will report back to the NCAA, and that person will sit on a compliance council made up of faculty and administrators.
Penn State must create a hotline for anonymously reporting violations.
And all student athletes and athletics employees will have to complete a yearly training course on integrity, ethics and reporting violations.
Any violations could result in an extension of probation or more sanctions.

Reserve the right to continue investigating: This wasn't a conventional NCAA investigation.
Instead of the typical route -- sending investigators to gather documents and do interviews, then give a written list of findings to the school, which has a chance to respond and an opportunity for a hearing -- NCAA President Mark Emmert said the executive committee decided to rely on the findings of the Sandusky criminal case and the internal university Freeh report.
Emmery said they chose that route in part because the 267-page Freeh report was more comprehensive than any investigation the NCAA has ever done themselves.
He called the decision and the sanctions unprecedented, but said the gravity of the case warranted it.
"The circumstances involved in the Penn State matter are unlike any encountered by the NCAA in its history," the NCAA said on a website dedicated completely to the Penn State scandal.

What victims think? Victim reactions are mixed.
The attorney for Victim 5 noted it is a heavy financial burden, but does nothing to directly compensate Sandusky's victims.
The attorney for Victim 4 said he was disappointed no victims were consulted.
The attorney for Victim 1 said the sanctions seemed "appropriately severe" and the $60 million dollar fine will be a good boost to charitable organizations that work to protect victims.

The Foundation to Abolish Child Sex Abuse said the sanctions send a "clear, unmistakable message" to any institution that puts its own interests ahead of children.
But the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP) said it was disappointed there was no suspension of football. "Vacating wins is a hollow punishment that will be forgotten by the time the next season begins," it said in a statement.
Unanswered questions: It will become more clear in the coming days how this will affect the morale at an already-shaken Penn State.
Since November, those affiliated with the university have taken blow after blow to the ideological image they've had about Happy Valley.
Will they still flock to the stadium in droves for tailgating this fall? Will they fill the stands even with rising ticket prices?
Will prospective students decide they can get just as good of an educations at other state schools and still participate in the full football experience?
Will the university have to quit selling T-shirt and other paraphernalia touting Paterno's record, the team championships, and bowl wins over the last 13 years?
How long will football recruits hesitate about signing with Penn State?
And how many more days like this are ahead?

The spacing got a bit weird at the end there.  Bolded a little of the fine info, plus the stuff about the players. 

[frunk]

Then why are they involved in what should be criminal proceedings at all?

I don't think they are involved in the criminal proceedings.

I suspect that the NCAA has no authority over individuals employed by schools, but rather only over the school itself.

This.  They can only punish the member institutions not individuals.  Man would things be different if they could.

That's what it comes down to.  It's a criminal matter, there was criminal activity and there's no reason why the NCAA should be involved in something that isn't their business.  The presumption that somehow the NCAA can hand out justice in this type of matter is silly.

[MadBurgerMaker]

That's what it comes down to.  It's a criminal matter, there was criminal activity and there's no reason why the NCAA should be involved in something that isn't their business.  The presumption that somehow the NCAA can hand out justice in this type of matter is silly.

They spelled it out pretty well in their letter back in November:

http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/pennstatencaaletter2.pdf

They hit on institutional control and ethical conduct of their member institutions.  Why wouldn't the actions of the Penn State athletic department be the NCAA's business?  It's separate from the criminal proceedings.

[sbr]

Then why are they involved in what should be criminal proceedings at all?

I don't think they are involved in the criminal proceedings.

I suspect that the NCAA has no authority over individuals employed by schools, but rather only over the school itself.

This.  They can only punish the member institutions not individuals.  Man would things be different if they could.

That's what it comes down to.  It's a criminal matter, there was criminal activity and there's no reason why the NCAA should be involved in something that isn't their business.  The presumption that somehow the NCAA can hand out justice in this type of matter is silly.

To think that they can't is silly.  Collegiate Athletics is the NCAA's business and the problems in the Penn State Athletic Department were unprecedented.  They also made it clear that this isn't about the Sandusky crimes, it is about the 14 years of the Athletic Department hiding, lying for, and making excuses for a child rapist.  If this wasn't lack of institutional control I would be curious to see what you thought was.

[Neil]

That's what it comes down to.  It's a criminal matter, there was criminal activity and there's no reason why the NCAA should be involved in something that isn't their business.  The presumption that somehow the NCAA can hand out justice in this type of matter is silly.

They have to be seen to do something though.  It's a PR thing for the Tims and sbrs of the world.

Although, if they hadn't have acted, it's possible that Congress might have gotten involved.  The last thing the NCAA needs is more scrutiny on all their theft and graft.

[Ed Anger]

Wisconsin is licking its chops for upcoming year. No Ohio State and Penn State in contention in the Leaders (ugh) Division? 3 trash teams left? Bucky Badger is getting the rape van ready.

[Valmy]

Wisconsin is licking its chops for upcoming year. No Ohio State and Penn State in contention in the Leaders (ugh) Division? 3 trash teams left? Bucky Badger is getting the rape van ready.

Surely with Urban Meyer Brutus will be invincible.