Berlusconi to resign after parliament OKs reforms

Started by garbon, November 08, 2011, 02:16:44 PM

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Josquius

This is...unexpected. But interesting. Wonder if Italy will get competent government from now on....or just Berlusconi 2.
My money is more on the latter.
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jimmy olsen

Quote from: Tyr on November 08, 2011, 11:09:10 PM
This is...unexpected. But interesting. Wonder if Italy will get competent government from now on....or just Berlusconi 2.
My money is more on the latter.
He was rather competent wasn't he? I don't think he could have stayed on top so long if he wasn't.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
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Sheilbh

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 08, 2011, 11:10:37 PMHe was rather competent wasn't he? I don't think he could have stayed on top so long if he wasn't.
I think it depends what you mean by competent.  From what I understand he kept things going, at best, in Italy but did manage to pass an array of laws that helped his own personal and business interests.
Let's bomb Russia!

Razgovory

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 08, 2011, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Tyr on November 08, 2011, 11:09:10 PM
This is...unexpected. But interesting. Wonder if Italy will get competent government from now on....or just Berlusconi 2.
My money is more on the latter.
He was rather competent wasn't he? I don't think he could have stayed on top so long if he wasn't.

You seriously aren't that naive are you?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Viking

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 08, 2011, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Tyr on November 08, 2011, 11:09:10 PM
This is...unexpected. But interesting. Wonder if Italy will get competent government from now on....or just Berlusconi 2.
My money is more on the latter.
He was rather competent wasn't he? I don't think he could have stayed on top so long if he wasn't.

Telling the stories using only "The Economist" Covers





and my personal favorite.


The Man Who Screwed and Entire Country
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Gups

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 08, 2011, 11:10:37 PM
He was rather competent wasn't he? I don't think he could have stayed on top so long if he wasn't.

I'm actually struggling to think of a more consistently incompetent leader of a major western country since the war.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Gups on November 09, 2011, 08:14:08 AM
I'm actually struggling to think of a more consistently incompetent leader of a major western country since the war.

Really?  Italy's macro policies have been reasonable.  I can't think of any truly dumbass economic policies.

The only thing I can think of that Italy botched on his watch was that chica journalista ransom and getaway into an American roadblock.

Viking

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2011, 08:20:18 AM
Quote from: Gups on November 09, 2011, 08:14:08 AM
I'm actually struggling to think of a more consistently incompetent leader of a major western country since the war.

Really?  Italy's macro policies have been reasonable.  I can't think of any truly dumbass economic policies.

The only thing I can think of that Italy botched on his watch was that chica journalista ransom and getaway into an American roadblock.


I refer you to the Dow Jones' view on Berlusconi's leadership.

Markets Turn Higher After Berlusconi Offers to Resign

QuoteStocks gyrated Tuesday before ending higher on a day of significant political developments in Italy, the latest country to come under fire in the drawn-out euro zone debt crisis.
Powered by an early rally in Europe, the stock market in the United States rose slightly before a budget vote in Italy that had taken on immense importance for the prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, after the recent defections of several lawmakers in his party. It passed with numerous abstentions, but Mr. Berlusconi lost his absolute majority.

Stocks then declined or were flat in afternoon trading until about two hours before the end of the session, when news that Mr. Berlusconi had offered to resign — after Parliament passes an austerity package — first emerged.

The Dow Jones industrial average closed up 0.84 percent, or 101.79 points, to 12,170. The broader Standard & Poor's 500-stock index was up 1.17 percent to 1,276, and the technology-heavy Nasdaq composite index was up 1.2 percent to 2,727.

There were no big reactions in credit markets, however. Italian 10-year bonds remained above their 6.7 percent yield, close to the level that forced other countries such as Greece to seek bailouts.

Investors have long been concerned that the debt ills in some of the smaller euro zone nations could spread to those with much bigger economies, a contagion that would be much harder to fix. They have been focusing on Italy of late because of concern about its high debt load, rising borrowing costs and stagnant economy. Interest rates on the country's debt have hit their highest levels since the country joined the euro zone more than a decade ago.

"With all of the debt they have to roll over it is extremely detrimental," said Laura LaRosa, the director of fixed income at Glenmede, adding that the "domino effect" is "absolutely what seems to be happening now."

The Treasury's benchmark 10-year note fell 17/32, to 100 13/32, and the yield rose to 2.08 percent from 2.02 percent late Monday.

Earlier in Europe, stocks closed higher. The Euro Stoxx 50 index, a barometer of euro zone blue chips, was up 1.2 percent. The German DAX was up 0.6 percent and the CAC 40 in Paris rose 1.3 percent. The FTSE 100 index in London was 1 percent higher.

"The equity markets are generally rallying in Europe because they are hopeful resolving the political crisis is a necessary solution to resolving the European crisis," said Jürgen Odenius, the chief economist at Prudential Fixed Income.

"The bond market remains bearish on this issue," he added.

The euro was $1.3839, compared with $1.3758 on Monday.

Elisabetta Povoledo and Rachel Donadio contributed reporting.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Gups

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2011, 08:20:18 AM
Quote from: Gups on November 09, 2011, 08:14:08 AM
I'm actually struggling to think of a more consistently incompetent leader of a major western country since the war.

Really?  Italy's macro policies have been reasonable.  I can't think of any truly dumbass economic policies.

The only thing I can think of that Italy botched on his watch was that chica journalista ransom and getaway into an American roadblock.



Berlosconi has been in charge since 2001 (and for a year or two in the late 90s). Italy stagnated between 2001 and 2007 while most of the west saw decent growth and it's fallen off a cliff faster than anoyone else. He's built up a huge debt and had done nothing about the sturctural problems in the Italian economy.

alfred russel

Quote from: Viking on November 09, 2011, 08:34:49 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2011, 08:20:18 AM
I refer you to the Dow Jones' view on Berlusconi's leadership.

I guess markets are conflicted. I came here to post that with yields surging over 7% on Italian debt, the markets think Berlusconi is the best leader Italy is going to get. Which may be damning with faint praise.  :lol:
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Viking

Quote from: alfred russel on November 09, 2011, 10:50:44 AM
Quote from: Viking on November 09, 2011, 08:34:49 AM
I refer you to the Dow Jones' view on Berlusconi's leadership.

I guess markets are conflicted. I came here to post that with yields surging over 7% on Italian debt, the markets think Berlusconi is the best leader Italy is going to get. Which may be damning with faint praise.  :lol:

I think It's more a case of the markets realizing that whatever was necessary to get Silvio to resign is something that they aren't factoring into the price of Italian debt given that they are still lending Italy money. Or... they see this as the first step towards a 50% default like Greece.

First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Sheilbh

Doesn't help that he's pulling a Mubarak.  'I'll resign after passing essential reforms. Honest.' This also doesn't increase sense of stability at all.
Let's bomb Russia!

Habbaku

Quote from: Viking on November 08, 2011, 05:46:45 PM
googling "bunga bunga lorica segmentata" didn't yield any results.. so no pics follow, but history nerds already have the image in their head that I hoped to post here.

A Sopranos episode had Tony engaging in bunga bunga lorica segmentata.   :homestar:
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.

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Viking

Quote from: Habbaku on November 09, 2011, 11:54:41 AM
Quote from: Viking on November 08, 2011, 05:46:45 PM
googling "bunga bunga lorica segmentata" didn't yield any results.. so no pics follow, but history nerds already have the image in their head that I hoped to post here.

A Sopranos episode had Tony engaging in bunga bunga lorica segmentata.   :homestar:

oh, yes, I remember that....
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

MadImmortalMan

"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers