American Gun Ownership Highest In 18 Years

[11B4V]

The extreme "Anti-gun Nutter" rhetoric is as entertaining as the "Nutter Extremes" rhetoric. They are just as unintelligible and inarticulate. They push the moderate and casual gun owners away. 

The problem is that anyone who is in favor of any kind of gun control at all, even that which has been clearly defined by the SC as well within the bounds of the New And Improved Second Amendment, then you get the label of "Anti-gun nutter".

As well as labelled a "Gun Nut". Maybe all due to the perception and rhetoric of the extremes. You have described the middle ground IMO. It's there and workable, but either sides extreme elements wont let that happen.

[The Minsky Moment]

They push the moderate and casual gun owners away.

There shouldn't be "casual" gun owners. 
I realize that isn't really what you meant when you used that word but intentionally or not it gets to the problem.

A lot of people who own guns are in fact overly casual about them and that ultimately has very serious and negative consequences when applied across millions of people.  And there is no way to solve that problem.  No matter how much you push safety there were always be some irreducible minority of screw-ups that will make things dangerous for themselves and those around them.  And it is not a negligible percentage.

So as a community we have to make choices about how to balance the legitimate rights and desires of the majority of people who will use this inherently dangerous tool with the proper respect against the reality that a substantial minority won't and never will, thus endangering the community as a whole.  That means having a serious discussion/debate about the proper extent of regulation to achieve a reasonable balance. 

If the opening bid from the gunowners in that debate is go screw yourself I can do whatever the hell I want - that isn't going to be perceived by those with more restrictive inclinations as reasonable.  In fact, it's going to lead those people to conclude that they are dealing with deranged people and the only safe option is draconian regulation.

I am NOT saying that the last paragraph refers to you, or derspiess, or anyone else here. 
But I am saying that is the message that I am hearing from the NRA these days and IMO it is poisoning the discourse.

[11B4V]

There shouldn't be "casual" gun owners. 
I realize that isn't really what you meant when you used that word but intentionally or not it gets to the problem.

Correct, I'll say ignorant gun owners.

A lot of people who own guns are in fact overly casual about them and that ultimately has very serious and negative consequences when applied across millions of people.  And there is no way to solve that problem.

The morons need to be held accountable for their negligence. Not,"well killing their kid should be enough". Because it isnt enough IMO. Slap them with a felony at least if your not going to jail them.

No matter how much you push safety there were always be some irreducible minority of screw-ups that will make things dangerous for themselves and those around them.  And it is not a negligible percentage.

True, but new rifles come with cable locks, internal action locks, and so forth. Plus trigger locks/cable locks are cheap. Crush them when it lead's to negligence.

For fucks sake it isnt hard to trigger/cable lock all firearms if you dont own a safe. Hell, even my reloading powder and primers are locked up.

That twat who bought his 5 y/o a 22LR probably looked at the internal action lock key and stated, "Huh, what the hell this for" and tossed it. Even if he hadnt of cleared the rifle properly, hadnt stored it properly, hadnt trigger locked it, but just engaged the internal lock, his daughter would be alive. They probably live in a single wide the fucks.

So as a community we have to make choices about how to balance the legitimate rights and desires of the majority of people who will use this inherently dangerous tool with the proper respect against the reality that a substantial minority won't and never will, thus endangering the community as a whole.  That means having a serious discussion/debate about the proper extent of regulation to achieve a reasonable balance.

Surely, the moderate thinking heads should prevail, but in reality they get drowned out by the extreme elements from both sides.   

I am NOT saying that the last paragraph refers to you, or derspiess, or anyone else here. 
But I am saying that is the message that I am hearing from the NRA these days and IMO it is poisoning the discourse.

I count the NRA's current head...an extreme.

[derspiess]

If the opening bid from the gunowners in that debate is go screw yourself I can do whatever the hell I want - that isn't going to be perceived by those with more restrictive inclinations as reasonable.  In fact, it's going to lead those people to conclude that they are dealing with deranged people and the only safe option is draconian regulation.

I don't think those with more restrictive inclinations aren't going to find pro-gun types reasonable in any case.  We've already been so caricatured by that side that there's no going back.

I have to be willing to give up some of my gun rights in hopes of appearing reasonable to gun control advocates?  Which ones?

[CountDeMoney]

I have to be willing to give up some of my gun rights in hopes of appearing reasonable to gun control advocates?  Which ones?

Filing background check paperwork before you purchase a weapon out of the trunk of somebody's car at the 18th Annual Hootenanny & Hee Haw Gunnapalooza.

[Ed Anger]

Bill Goodman's gun and knife show is hilarious. Where else can you get a gun and a Das Reich T shirt?

PUTTING ON THE REICH

[derspiess]

I have to be willing to give up some of my gun rights in hopes of appearing reasonable to gun control advocates?  Which ones?

Filing background check paperwork before you purchase a weapon out of the trunk of somebody's car at the 18th Annual Hootenanny & Hee Haw Gunnapalooza.

In practice that would not inconvenience me very much. But on principle I don't like the idea of me not being allowed to sell my own personal property without the government's approval.

[CountDeMoney]

Bill Goodman's gun and knife show is hilarious. Where else can you get a gun and a Das Reich T shirt?

PUTTING ON THE REICH

Yeah, I always thought it interesting how "guns" and "militaria" consistently find themselves together at so many shows, like an old Reese's Peanut Butter Cups commercial from the 70s.

YOU GOT YOUR BERETTA IN MY HITLER YOOT KNIFE
YOU GOT YOUR HITLER YOOT KNIFE IN MY BERETTA
*EMBRACE, SURVIVALIST ASS HUMPING, SPOOGE TOGETHER IN 2ND AMENDMENT BLISS*

[CountDeMoney]

I have to be willing to give up some of my gun rights in hopes of appearing reasonable to gun control advocates?  Which ones?

Filing background check paperwork before you purchase a weapon out of the trunk of somebody's car at the 18th Annual Hootenanny & Hee Haw Gunnapalooza.

In practice that would not inconvenience me very much. But on principle I don't like the idea of me not being allowed to sell my own personal property without the government's approval.

Ergo why nitwits like you do not appear reasonable after all.

[derspiess]

Bill Goodman's gun and knife show is hilarious. Where else can you get a gun and a Das Reich T shirt?

PUTTING ON THE REICH

Ugh. About the only useful thing I've gotten out of that show recently was having a knife sharpened. Used to be a place to pick up ammo at a decent price. Not going there or to a gun shop until the current silliness blows over.

You can get Soviet shirts there, too FWIW.

[derspiess]

I have to be willing to give up some of my gun rights in hopes of appearing reasonable to gun control advocates?  Which ones?

Filing background check paperwork before you purchase a weapon out of the trunk of somebody's car at the 18th Annual Hootenanny & Hee Haw Gunnapalooza.

In practice that would not inconvenience me very much. But on principle I don't like the idea of me not being allowed to sell my own personal property without the government's approval.

Ergo why nitwits like you do not appear reasonable after all.

I just want to be left alone

[Ed Anger]

Bill Goodman's gun and knife show is hilarious. Where else can you get a gun and a Das Reich T shirt?

PUTTING ON THE REICH

Ugh. About the only useful thing I've gotten out of that show recently was having a knife sharpened. Used to be a place to pick up ammo at a decent price. Not going there or to a gun shop until the current silliness blows over.

You can get Soviet shirts there, too FWIW.

I did get some awesome us army manuals on Sov TO&E back in the 90's at one. 

[CountDeMoney]

But on principle I don't like the idea of me not being allowed to sell my own personal property without the government's approval.

Ergo why nitwits like you do not appear reasonable after all.

I just want to be left alone

You don't bat an eye when you've got to get your car inspected before you sell it.  It's selling your personal property with the government's approval.

But with guns, it's always different.

[Caliga]

Did you guys know the guy who owns the kiddie rifle company owns some other kid toy companies too?

Here's an interview: http://www.hulu.com/watch/115713

[CountDeMoney]

I did get some awesome us army manuals on Sov TO&E back in the 90's at one. 

I scored those too, but at a gaming convention.  They're cool as shit.