American Gun Ownership Highest In 18 Years

[Ed Anger]

Berk, teach your kids how to form a kampfgruppe.

we need a fat kid.

[derspiess]

Speaking of guns, I still have the Raven .25 sitting in my safe upstairs. Still have no idea what I should do with it...

Keep it.  They're too young yet, but you should teach your kids how to properly handle a gun.  Not to fire it, mind you, but how to make sure one is empty, how to properly hand it to somebody, etc.

You never know when they'll come across one out in the real world (or heaven forbid, a friend's house) when you're not around.  But there's nothing wrong with safety first.

Right now I have Tommy on the "If you see a gun, don't touch it-- go tell mom or dad or some other adult" mantra.  He repeats it back to me.  I've let him look at some of my guns to hopefully de-mystify the whole concept for him and he's watched me clean them.  Maybe in a year or two I'll let him shoot my old BB gun.

[CountDeMoney]

Right now I have Tommy on the "If you see a gun, don't touch it-- go tell mom or dad or some other adult" mantra.  He repeats it back to me.  I've let him look at some of my guns to hopefully de-mystify the whole concept for him and he's watched me clean them.  Maybe in a year or two I'll let him shoot my old BB gun.

That's usually the safe play;  fear, then respect.  Not a toy.

Or just leave 'em all around the house on the furniture like 11B does, and they'll treat it with as much indifference as a lamp. 

[Ed Anger]

I was going to stick to the 'teach them at 8-10 years of age' untill I saw the cool kid sized rifles.

Now I'm torn.

[derspiess]

Holy sheep shit.  I knew there was a huge run on anything AR-related, but I had no idea it spread to other types of firearms.  I can get almost twice as much out of my Yugo M59/66 SKS, but nothing I want to buy is in stock anywhere, and the prices I'm seeing are outrageous.  Smart move would be to sell and wait, I suppose. 

I'm also selling some miscellaneous AR parts on auction and am getting about 3 times what I would have expected to get a couple months ago.  Glad I procrastinated on that.

[CountDeMoney]

No, that crowd isn't prone to panic or anything.

[11B4V]

Obama said he supported small business. Maybe it's his underlying plan with his lame 23 exec orders.

[11B4V]

No, that crowd isn't prone to panic or anything.

For MLK day, I purchased a Mcmillan composite stock for the M70 featherweight. No, the prices on bolt action stuff hasnt changed.

[garbon]

No, that crowd isn't prone to panic or anything.

Time to stick to the enclaves.

[MadImmortalMan]

Right now I have Tommy on the "If you see a gun, don't touch it-- go tell mom or dad or some other adult" mantra.

That's almost exactly the NRA's motto they teach to kids, which by the way is an extremely admirable program. I think it's "Don't touch--leave the area--tell an adult".

Speaking of guns, I still have the Raven .25 sitting in my safe upstairs. Still have no idea what I should do with it...

Keep it.  They're too young yet, but you should teach your kids how to properly handle a gun.  Not to fire it, mind you, but how to make sure one is empty, how to properly hand it to somebody, etc.

You never know when they'll come across one out in the real world (or heaven forbid, a friend's house) when you're not around.  But there's nothing wrong with safety first.

I could not agree more. They're going to come in contact eventually, and not training them how to be safe is a very bad idea. I was a complete idiot when I first came in contact with my friends' shotguns because my mom would not have any in the house and kept me away from them. I was so bad my friends were shocked and sat me down for a lesson there and then. I was 13. 

[11B4V]

Holy sheep shit.  I knew there was a huge run on anything AR-related, but I had no idea it spread to other types of firearms.  I can get almost twice as much out of my Yugo M59/66 SKS, but nothing I want to buy is in stock anywhere, and the prices I'm seeing are outrageous.  Smart move would be to sell and wait, I suppose. 

I'm also selling some miscellaneous AR parts on auction and am getting about 3 times what I would have expected to get a couple months ago.  Glad I procrastinated on that.

True, anything assault rifle, semi-auto battle rifle in 5.56, 5.45, 7.62x51, 7.62x39. To include parts, bullets, cases. Mother fuckers be flipping out. Regular rifle stuff hasnt been effected. Just slows down the order arrival time.

[derspiess]

Holy sheep shit.  I knew there was a huge run on anything AR-related, but I had no idea it spread to other types of firearms.  I can get almost twice as much out of my Yugo M59/66 SKS, but nothing I want to buy is in stock anywhere, and the prices I'm seeing are outrageous.  Smart move would be to sell and wait, I suppose. 

I'm also selling some miscellaneous AR parts on auction and am getting about 3 times what I would have expected to get a couple months ago.  Glad I procrastinated on that.

True, anything assault rifle, semi-auto battle rifle in 5.56, 5.45, 7.62x51, 7.62x39. To include parts, bullets, cases. Mother fuckers be flipping out. Regular rifle stuff hasnt been effected. Just slows down the order arrival time.

Hmm, maybe I'll sell the SKS and get a hunting rifle

[OttoVonBismarck]

Not at all - I am saying that the reason most people who are passionate defenders of the individual right to bear arms are motivated to do so is based not on any desire to protect themselves from tyranny or even to protect their family, but simply because guns are a cool toy.

That's irrelevant to any point he's making though, if something is constitutionally protected it doesn't intrinsically matter why someone wants to fight for its continued protection. Constitutionally protected behaviors don't have to be justified in most cases.

You don't need to prove anything to anyone. I will note, however, that the Second Amendment having anything to do with an individual right to bear arms is a figment of the supreme court. But that is neither here nor there.

Well the right to privacy existing in the "penumbras of the bill of rights" is also a figment of the imagination of the SCOTUS. But you can make that argument about a great many SCOTUS interpretations, and unlike you I accept the fact that those interpretations are all valid law and to call them figments in instances where you politically disagree with them is just childish and stupid. SCOTUS says it is an individual right, so it is. Full stop. The statement about it being a figment of their imagination is asinine.

I'll note there is a lot of historical support for it as an individual right. The Virginia Declaration of Rights has a very similarly worded protection of gun ownership except it is a bit more obvious it is intended as an individual right because of its wording. The Virginia Declaration predates the Bill of Rights (and the Constitution.) I'll also note in the Federalist 29 Hamilton talks of how the people "at large" will always be armed and ready to assist the more regulated militia in times of necessity. The Second is pretty clearly, from historical context, intended to be an individual and not a group right. There's basically no explicitly "collective rights" in the entire bill of rights and a good amount of historical backing to the claim it was intended as both an individual right and a protection of militias as well.

Well, I submit that there is a fundamental difference between the "right to own guns" 'freedom' and other freedoms. Namely - that the right to own guns in the manner the NRA and gun afficionados purport is neither necessary or conducive to a free state, and therefore isn't a fundamnetal right at all, but simply a figment of a particular historical precedent.

The problem is the text of the Amendment clearly says it is necessary for a free state. Also, what is a "fundamental" right? Rights only exist as created by governments, are you arguing for some further rights as created by some exterior entity?

Note I'm a strong gun control advocate who owns lots of guns. I'm an extreme anti-populist on this issue, I think some people (I would fit this category) should be allowed to own guns and many others shouldn't. A strong regulatory regime will weed out the undesirables. But you're attacking the Second Amendment itself basically because you think it's stupid and you don't think the SCOTUS interpreted it correctly. But you can say the latter about a huge number of things, and calling those rulings "figments of the court's imagination" is not really productive or a realistic way to look at our society. As for it being stupid, maybe it is, but it's still there and just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't in force. I don't particularly like the 17th Amendment or the 23rd amendment but that doesn't mean they don't have some constitutional weight, they do, they're part of the constitution.

[Barrister]

Holy sheep shit.  I knew there was a huge run on anything AR-related, but I had no idea it spread to other types of firearms.  I can get almost twice as much out of my Yugo M59/66 SKS, but nothing I want to buy is in stock anywhere, and the prices I'm seeing are outrageous.  Smart move would be to sell and wait, I suppose. 

I'm also selling some miscellaneous AR parts on auction and am getting about 3 times what I would have expected to get a couple months ago.  Glad I procrastinated on that.

True, anything assault rifle, semi-auto battle rifle in 5.56, 5.45, 7.62x51, 7.62x39. To include parts, bullets, cases. Mother fuckers be flipping out. Regular rifle stuff hasnt been effected. Just slows down the order arrival time.

Hmm, maybe I'll sell the SKS and get a hunting rifle

A hunting rifle would be a lot more useful you know...

[Ed Anger]

I'll keep my SKS-M. Thanks.