Our pussification continues or why some of the greatest men were assholes

[Tamas]

What an asshole.

But again, my claim is that no matter what you think about Steve Jobs in terms of his greatness, his personality should not enter the picture at all. Noone cares if Leonardo da Vinci was a histrionic sugar daddy to urchins or that Isaak Newton was a petty asshole who feuded most of his life with Leibnitz.

See, this is the problem right there. Da Vinci? Newton? Being compared to Jobs?

Jobs was an exceptionally successful BUSINESSMAN.  He knew how to package gadgets and monopolized the market of luxury tech devices on the virtue of arriving there first. I respect his succes, but if we raise him to godhood, what about Rockefeller, the old Murdoch, Gates, Hilton, Ford etc?

Can you read? I expressly put there a caveat "no matter what you think of Steve Jobs", so some idiot does not come up with a counter like that.

How does that make any sense then? "no matter what you think of Steve Jobs, he was great"? que?

[Syt]

Eh, Tamas, much as it pains me, I have to side with Mart here. He says clearly:

my claim is that no matter what you think about Steve Jobs in terms of his greatness, his personality should not enter the picture at all

So any discussion of his legacy (or anyone else's) should in his opinion focus on his achievements (or lack thereof), not his character. Whether that's how it should be is debatable, of course.

Personally, I'd liken Steve Jobs more to people like Henry Ford than Leonardo DaVinci.

[Tamas]

Eh, Tamas, much as it pains me, I have to side with Mart here. He says clearly:

my claim is that no matter what you think about Steve Jobs in terms of his greatness, his personality should not enter the picture at all

So any discussion of his legacy (or anyone else's) should in his opinion focus on his achievements (or lack thereof), not his character.

-when one is being stood on a pedestal as a Great Man his personality should not be ignored

-my original point was that Marty specifically said that if we don't care what kind of person Da Vinci or Newton was, we shouldnt care for Jobs either. Which is wrong on some levels, most notably on the fact of thinking that Jobs contributed to culture and science on the levels of those dudes.

[grumbler]

-when one is being stood on a pedestal as a Great Man his personality should not be ignored

-my original point was that Marty specifically said that if we don't care what kind of person Da Vinci or Newton was, we shouldnt care for Jobs either. Which is wrong on some levels, most notably on the fact of thinking that Jobs contributed to culture and science on the levels of those dudes.

And I would note that, when Marti says "Noone [sic] cares" he is really saying only that he doesn't care, and that he lacks the intellectual capability to imagine that there are people who don't think like hie does.

Some people do care about things like personal traits when considering "greatness."  That Marti cannot conceive of this says everything about Marti and nothing about the subject.

[Barrister]

Lamenting about the pussification of society might have more credibility if the source wasn't people's bitching about an Apple executive. Cause you know, Macs -> hipster -> wuss. This causation chain will be proven irrevocably when BB starts arguing for legalization of medical marijuana. 

All fucking potheads should fucking hang.   

[grumbler]

All fucking potheads lawyers should fucking hang.   

FYPFY. 

[Barrister]

All fucking potheads lawyerspotheads and grumbler should fucking hang.   

FYPFY. 

[grumbler]

All fucking potheads lawyerspotheads and grumbler prosecutors and other government employees should fucking hang.   

FYPFY. 

[Barrister]

All fucking potheads lawyerspotheads and grumbler prosecutors and other government employees grumblersshould fucking hang.   

FYPFY. 

[Valmy]

Man is there anybody who shouldn't fucking hang?

[Razgovory]

Don't you get a government pension Grumbler?  I thought you were once a federal employee.

[Valmy]

Don't you get a government pension Grumbler?  I thought you were once a federal employee.

So you mean grumbler may not be totally serious about wanting all government employees to be executed via hanging?

[The Minsky Moment]

I read recently an article which claimed that Steve Jobs's "greatness" is questionable because he was a "bully".

Cite?

Still waiting for a reference on this . . .

[grumbler]

So you mean grumbler may not be totally serious about wanting all government employees to be executed via hanging?

True.  I left out "Canadian" in the phrase, assuming that everyone would understand that that was implied.

[dps]

All this talk about being hung from BB and grumbler must be because they are compensating for something.