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So just who is the 99%?

Started by Barrister, October 20, 2011, 02:51:22 PM

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crazy canuck

Quote from: Jacob on October 20, 2011, 04:30:43 PM
I'm pretty sure that it comes out of that stat that 1% of the US population controls more than 50% of the wealth.

So it's not about income, it's about assets, and it's not about poor people in other countries.

and 1% of the planet controls more than 50% of its wealth - and you and I are part of that 1%.

So is it hypocrisy - the protestors want a better deal for themselves and the rest be damned?

Razgovory

Quote from: crazy canuck on October 20, 2011, 08:13:38 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 20, 2011, 04:30:43 PM
I'm pretty sure that it comes out of that stat that 1% of the US population controls more than 50% of the wealth.

So it's not about income, it's about assets, and it's not about poor people in other countries.

and 1% of the planet controls more than 50% of its wealth - and you and I are part of that 1%.

So is it hypocrisy - the protestors want a better deal for themselves and the rest be damned?

Most people want that.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

ulmont

Quote from: garbon on October 20, 2011, 03:44:19 PM
Also I don't know about trusting a financial samurai but that site has a similar figure for 2010:

I think that's individual versus household.

Valmy

Quote from: crazy canuck on October 20, 2011, 08:13:38 PM
and 1% of the planet controls more than 50% of its wealth - and you and I are part of that 1%.

So is it hypocrisy - the protestors want a better deal for themselves and the rest be damned?

What are you suggesting?  That everytime somebody has a problem with the powers that be they have to be in support of aid for Sub-Saharan Africa or they do not pass your hypocrisy test?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Habbaku

Quote from: Martinus on October 20, 2011, 04:42:48 PM
Uhm no. There was a thread in the back room about it.

:huh:  No there wasn't.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.

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fhdz

Quote from: Barrister on October 20, 2011, 02:51:22 PM
How many of Languishites are in the 1%?

Sure as hell isn't me. Don't worry; if I ever hit the big time, I'll give liberally to charity.
and the horse you rode in on

Tamas

Quote from: crazy canuck on October 20, 2011, 08:13:38 PM
So is it hypocrisy - the protestors want a better deal for themselves and the rest be damned?

took you a while to figure this out :P

Martinus

Quote from: Tamas on October 21, 2011, 03:35:57 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 20, 2011, 08:13:38 PM
So is it hypocrisy - the protestors want a better deal for themselves and the rest be damned?

took you a while to figure this out :P

I don't think it's a fair way of looking at it.

The protestors - mostly young people - want for themselves what the older/richer generations got, admittedly and apparently while getting us all into the huge debt in the process. The older/richer generations now tell the protestors (rightly) that they can't have it since we are deep in shit and you can't run deficits like this anymore, but the protestors (also rightly) tell the older/richer generations then fine, but since it's the older/richer generations that got us into this, they should share some of their wealth (gotten by getting us all into debt) with the protestors.

I think the latter demand is fair, and presenting is as class warfare is simply dishonest.

Tamas

But it is.

Those feel being outside of the establishment wants to become part of the establishment. Those who would lose their place in the establishment are trying to stop them from doing so.
That's like history in a nutshell, ever since we were a bunch of monkey in the jungle. It is the various ideologies which support this constant struggle for a higher spot on the pack's ladder, the struggle giving birth to ideologies supporting it, not the other way around.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Valmy on October 21, 2011, 12:07:36 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 20, 2011, 08:13:38 PM
and 1% of the planet controls more than 50% of its wealth - and you and I are part of that 1%.

So is it hypocrisy - the protestors want a better deal for themselves and the rest be damned?

What are you suggesting?  That everytime somebody has a problem with the powers that be they have to be in support of aid for Sub-Saharan Africa or they do not pass your hypocrisy test?

No, what I am suggesting is that they stop pretending they are something they are not. A large number of protestors I see here in Vancouver are kids in university who come from affluent homes.  ie they can afford to be faux protestors.  On my way to work each morning I see actual homeless people going about their usual work of looking in dumpsters for returnables.

If they want to take the political advantages of portraying themselves as the downtrodden 99% then it seems to me they also have to take risk of the hypocrisy of that statement.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Tamas on October 21, 2011, 04:31:21 AM
But it is.

Those feel being outside of the establishment wants to become part of the establishment. Those who would lose their place in the establishment are trying to stop them from doing so.
That's like history in a nutshell, ever since we were a bunch of monkey in the jungle. It is the various ideologies which support this constant struggle for a higher spot on the pack's ladder, the struggle giving birth to ideologies supporting it, not the other way around.

Dialectic Materialism non-sense. 

Martinus

Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2011, 09:45:27 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 21, 2011, 12:07:36 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 20, 2011, 08:13:38 PM
and 1% of the planet controls more than 50% of its wealth - and you and I are part of that 1%.

So is it hypocrisy - the protestors want a better deal for themselves and the rest be damned?

What are you suggesting?  That everytime somebody has a problem with the powers that be they have to be in support of aid for Sub-Saharan Africa or they do not pass your hypocrisy test?

No, what I am suggesting is that they stop pretending they are something they are not. A large number of protestors I see here in Vancouver are kids in university who come from affluent homes.  ie they can afford to be faux protestors.  On my way to work each morning I see actual homeless people going about their usual work of looking in dumpsters for returnables.

If they want to take the political advantages of portraying themselves as the downtrodden 99% then it seems to me they also have to take risk of the hypocrisy of that statement.

I disagree. Being in the top 30% still makes you likely to belong to the bottom 99%.

And I don't buy that argument that unless you are homeless/really poor you have no right to protest. The middle class is the backbone of any society and the middle class has been hit most hard by this recession. They have every right to protest, but more importantly, the rulers better listen to them - any succesful revolution involved a revolt by the middle class.

Martinus

Also, I'm highly allergic to any pro-system rhetoric portraying the protesters as "spoiled youth" - because this is exactly, almost word-for-word, the rhetoric that was used in communist Poland against the student revolt of 1968 (which was sparked by antisemitic and illiberal actions of the government).

garbon

Quote from: Martinus on October 21, 2011, 10:36:41 AM
Also, I'm highly allergic to any pro-system rhetoric portraying the protesters as "spoiled youth" - because this is exactly, almost word-for-word, the rhetoric that was used in communist Poland against the student revolt of 1968 (which was sparked by antisemitic and illiberal actions of the government).

So you are using emotion rather than logic?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Josephus

Quote from: crazy canuck on October 21, 2011, 09:45:27 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 21, 2011, 12:07:36 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 20, 2011, 08:13:38 PM
and 1% of the planet controls more than 50% of its wealth - and you and I are part of that 1%.

So is it hypocrisy - the protestors want a better deal for themselves and the rest be damned?

What are you suggesting?  That everytime somebody has a problem with the powers that be they have to be in support of aid for Sub-Saharan Africa or they do not pass your hypocrisy test?

No, what I am suggesting is that they stop pretending they are something they are not. A large number of protestors I see here in Vancouver are kids in university who come from affluent homes.  ie they can afford to be faux protestors.  On my way to work each morning I see actual homeless people going about their usual work of looking in dumpsters for returnables.

If they want to take the political advantages of portraying themselves as the downtrodden 99% then it seems to me they also have to take risk of the hypocrisy of that statement.

I'm not sure what you're saying.

University students should not be allowed to protest?

Universtiy studetns are not part of the 99 per cent?

Please clarify.
Civis Romanus Sum<br /><br />"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." Jack Layton 1950-2011