Wall Street protesters: We're in for the long haul

[Monoriu]

Otto you dont seem to be responding to how the guy in this instance was sitting passively and not threatening the officer in any way, yet the officer used a weapon on him.

My problem with that police officer is that what he did was worse than a crime - it was a mistake.  His actions unnecessarily garnered support for the protesters. 

[CountDeMoney]

Otto you dont seem to be responding to how the guy in this instance was sitting passively and not threatening the officer in any way, yet the officer used a weapon on him.

My problem with that police officer is that what he did was worse than a crime - it was a mistake.  His actions unnecessarily garnered support for the protesters.

Yes, at it so happens with incidents caught on tape, as usual the cops wind up becoming their own enemies by not doing the correct thing.

The protesters were protesting tuition hikes on campus.  It had nothing to do with the Occupy Wall Street people, so the "garnered support for the protesters" thing isn't going to cause a groundswell of support, merely make another case of "don't trust cops with anything".  Which, in this particular case, is entirely the cops' own doing.  Could've been handled better, and if it had been handled appropriately and in accordance with modern police theory and training, we wouldn't be discussing this.

[Malthus]

No.

To me, a reactionary is someone who almost always finds personal contentment in the status quo, for whom any situation could always be worse, and therefore, should never be contested. It would be someone who'd wish dissent to be silent, by pointing to salt mine slavery when faced with plantation slavery, to slavery when faced with apartheid, to apartheid when faced with segregation, and to segregation when faced with discrimination. It is someone for whom any sort of protest - if any -  should always be authorized, hushed, sanitized, intellectualized, rendered bland, and hopefully utterly meaningless; someone for whom the law is always right first, and wrong only after a lengthy, costly process which should hopefully lead to the castration of any sort of actual demand for change; someone for whom injustice, to the extent that it exists, should be fought, if they really must, politely, through careful application of money, and with an agenda which should span the next century or so. I distinguish it from conservatives, because conservatives usually have elaborated reasons to defend the values they feel are threatened.

And, of course, reactionary is - much like fascist - a polemical word which almost always necessitates an explanation

The interesting thing about this explaination is that, as far as I know, it fits absolutely no-one on Languish - yet it is made in response to the generalized statement that Languish "is reactionary". 

Is there anyone here who has ever argued "... any situation could always be worse, and therefore, should never be contested"?

[Duque de Bragança]

Fascism needs to have an expansionist aspect which was lacking in salazarism which itself was not totalitarian to begin with but authoritarian and reactionary indeed.
Francoism did call for Greater Spain but never really tried.

[Malthus]

For those reasons my initial response to a police explanation is scepticism until the independent inquiry that'll inevitably follow reports.

I agree with holding cops to high standards and being sceptical of thier explainations - that's all part of the basic bargan with the state in a democracy: it has the ultimate use of force, but in turn, its use of force will and should be held under the public microscope.

[Josephus]

Each time I forget how reactionary Languish is, I find a thread to remind me.

So reactionary is anyone who disagrees with that righteousness of the occupiers?

I'm pretty liberal here, and I don't think much of them.  At least I think I'm pretty liberal.

I see, you must be suffering from some form of false consciousness.  You are obviously reactionary scum and will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.

Nah...he'll be second. 

[Razgovory]

I admit, I found some aspects of Communism appealing as a Teenagers.  Naturally, I outgrew it and like most who go through such a silly faze I'm quite distrustful of the Reds.

[CountDeMoney]

I admit, I found some aspects of Communism appealing as a Teenagers.  Naturally, I outgrew it and like most who go through such a silly faze I'm quite distrustful of the Reds.

Anti-intellectual fag.

[Razgovory]

I admit, I found some aspects of Communism appealing as a Teenagers.  Naturally, I outgrew it and like most who go through such a silly faze I'm quite distrustful of the Reds.

Anti-intellectual fag.

[crazy canuck]

They're reactionary in that they're reacting against something.  The distinction I'd make is that reactionary's are about preserving the past and the status quo, whereas Fascism's about destroying. 

I see so the left wing in Canada are reactionaries against the shift toward a more conservative Canada.  Interesting.

[crazy canuck]

This thread is a fine example. I think I was labelled "reactionary" for the crime of asking what those standards are, whether they were actually violated, and if not, why are they the standard, and what ought they be otherwise.

You were being an idiot becuase you were arguing that pepper spraying in the first instance was acceptable.  Nobody labelled you as a reactionary  - especially since Oex's definition doesnt actually fit anyone.  But I did label you as engaging in meaningless semantics to cover up your lack of knowledge in the area.

[Jacob]

I find it weird that Languish is generally anti-government.  Government should be controlled and viewed with deep suspicion and God help you if you think public pensions are a good idea.  Except, of course, for the coercive wing of the state where we should listen to experts, generally people are trying their best, it is better if you just do what your told and there's no real need for the state having to take too much responsibility.

That's an American phenomenon, and I think it's only true of languish to the degree that Americans define it.

[Josephus]

^^^

and many of the Canadians too.

[Jacob]

^^^

and many of the Canadians too.

Who are the anti-government Canadians?

[OttoVonBismarck]

Otto you dont seem to be responding to how the guy in this instance was sitting passively and not threatening the officer in any way, yet the officer used a weapon on him.

Actually I've already said:

The UC Davis pepper spraying isn't something I'm saying was right and is only being opposed because of knee-jerk anti-pepper spray feelings, that whole situation could have been handled differently. But generally speaking if property rights are to exist, or if public property for the enjoyment of the public is to exist at some point you may have to use force to stop recalcitrant bums and hobos from ruining things and that force is going to sometimes necessitate some pain, regardless of method.

And

The dude that pepper sprayed the people sitting at UC Davis? That's not a good thing, and he deserves punishment.

The only guy here that's been a cop has basically said the UC Davis situation was a fuckup, so I'll bow to authority on that particular one, since I'm certainly no kind of expert on police procedures. I tried to make it clear I was explaining why some might be reflexively pro-LEO, or at least pro-"give them some respect" and let an investigation happen before sending them to the gallows.