Wall Street protesters: We're in for the long haul

[Ideologue]

Berkut, you can crash on my couch anytime.

[Razgovory]

I'm outraged, and it has nothing to do with the protesters.  It has everything to do with lazy ass cops, their refusal to fucking put their hands on people when that's all that's necessary, and the unnecessary use of 15% OC, which is bear repellent, as opposed to the usual 5% issued to most LEOs.

Well it's better then those transit cops in San Fran who already had the perp face down and shot the guy in the back.

[The Brain]

I don't care about the feelings of the garbage when the streets get cleaned.

[CountDeMoney]

My basic argument, however, is that the majority of the people "outraged" are really just on the side of the protesters, and are going to be outraged if the police do anything other than "take off their badges and sit down alongside them."

I'm outraged, and it has nothing to do with the protesters.  It has everything to do with lazy ass cops, their refusal to fucking put their hands on people when that's all that's necessary, and the unnecessary use of 15% OC, which is bear repellent, as opposed to the usual 5% issued to most LEOs.

I still want to know what the cops SOP is though.

Is it to going in blasting pepper spray, or do they have other options for that situation?

It seems clear from what you are saying (and it is nice to see someone who actually knows something rather than just imagining how terrible the bad policemans are) that there ought to be options, especially given the numbers involved. Are the cops lazy, or are they just doing what the book says they should do in this case?

Quickie continuum of force is: verbal, hands, tools (baton, tazer, OC spray, even flashlight if necessary), deadly force.

I'll just go into what we were trained for when it came to riot and crowd control (and it was about half a morning's worth );  if they are doing non-violent protests like sit-ins and the order is to disperse or arrest, you use as many officers as it takes to remove one at a time.  It's not that difficult to conceive, sorta like trying to put the cat into the carrier for a trip to the vets.  You pick em up, you take em to the wagon.  One at a time.

And considering how campus police forces are trained--particularly with the sensitivities of college-related political action--I can't fathom why that lieutenant did what he did.  If I was working that crowd alongside with him, I'd be incredibly pissed that I'd wind up getting that shit all over me handling those kids.  And guess what? That's what they wound up doing anyway--put their hands to them and carted them off.  Only except carting off kids, you're carting off kids that require medical attention because of that shit. 

And how the fuck didn't they think, surrounded by a shitload of Generation Tech, that this wasn't going to be posted onto Youtube within the hour.  Just stupid.

I really think it comes down to laziness coupled with liability.  Cops nowadays are loathe to put their hands on anybody, and I blame the political correctness that's come with the disappearance of the baton, nightstick and espantoon.  It's got a bad rap, but it is an invaluable tool to use in the field when it comes to something like this.  Alas, the imagery of nightsticking the darkies doesn't work in media relations anymore.  So, they're going to use other tools, tools that are situationally inappropriate.

Hell, I've seen too many times when officers have gone straight from verbal to hands to the gun.  Putting a Glock barrel on someone's eyeball because he won't get off the pavement.  Now what, dumbass?  Never made sense to me.

Now, if they're being violent, then it's on.  Kinda like my Dad telling me when 400 BPD officers were bussed down to College Park during the draft riots.  Little fuckers were scooping up the tear gas canisters with their fucking lacrosse sticks and tossing them back.

Lacrosse. 

[CountDeMoney]

That one is so beautiful and sublime, on so many levels.

[crazy canuck]

I have no idea what the usual police protocal is for the use of force to handle people illegaly blocking access or whatever they call it. What is the protocal where I live relevant, this didn't happen here.

That is the point Berk.  You really have no idea what you are talking about but you still engage in semantics.  It is mind boggling that you think pepper spaying is ok even given your lack of knowledge.  However, if you really are curious about the proper police response to civil disobediance a good place to start is the Hughes report which was written at the Conclusion of the APEC Inquiry.

You should read the section regarding the RCMP officer who pepper sprayed a group of protestors who were sitting on a roadway.

edit: you can save yourself the trouble and just read what cdm wrote.  It is pretty much exactly what the Report said.

[Habbaku]

That one is so beautiful and sublime, on so many levels.

All the Vietnam-era ones are pretty bitchin'.

[Ed Anger]

 

[Josephus]

Wonder if that cop knows he's currently in his 15 minutes of fame?

[Admiral Yi]

The picking up before pepper spraying arguments have convinced me.

[Ed Anger]

[KRonn]

 

[CountDeMoney]

The picking up before pepper spraying arguments have convinced me.

Thing is, somebody gave that lieutenant the order. to do that.  And the campus police chief should be fired, because he should fucking know better.

[Darth Wagtaros]

The picking up before pepper spraying arguments have convinced me.

Thing is, somebody gave that lieutenant the order. to do that.  And the campus police chief should be fired, because he should fucking know better.

There are enough "beat the filthy hippie" types out there that would riot and probably cause a lot of damage.

[Berkut]

It seems clear from what you are saying (and it is nice to see someone who actually knows something rather than just imagining how terrible the bad policemans are) that there ought to be options, especially given the numbers involved. Are the cops lazy, or are they just doing what the book says they should do in this case?

But even if they're just doing what the book says doesn't that just mean the book needs changing?

Of course - there are lots of books out there, and it is certainly the case that police departments should be evaluating how they've handled protests, how others have handled them, and figuring out what needs to be adjusted.

I just don't think this is as easy as you guys want to make it out to be, and that desire to make it seem trivial seems driven by the need to exaggerate the injustice of the police. And had the police simply "dragged them away", I am sure much of the same people would be complaining about that as well.