Wall Street protesters: We're in for the long haul

[Admiral Yi]

I've got huge problems with American/Euro style policing.  This and the NY traffic case are examples why.  On the other hand I think it's a cultural difference - like having guns - that I just won't ever get so there's not much of use to say.

What do you think is the appropriate way to get demonstrators to leave a place they're not supposed to be?

I don't know anything about The UC-Davis Pepper Spraying, but it looks from the pic that they're blocking a road and the copper wants them to leave.  Go up on the grassy knoll with the other demonstrators.

[Capetan Mihali]

I've got huge problems with American/Euro style policing.  This and the NY traffic case are examples why.  On the other hand I think it's a cultural difference - like having guns - that I just won't ever get so there's not much of use to say.

What do you think is the appropriate way to get demonstrators to leave a place they're not supposed to be?

I don't know anything about The UC-Davis Pepper Spraying, but it looks from the pic that they're blocking a road and the copper wants them to leave.  Go up on the grassy knoll with the other demonstrators.

Because God knows in a free country like ours you do exactly what a copper wants or you get chemical burns to the face. 

[Admiral Yi]

Because God knows in a free country like ours you do exactly what a copper wants or you get chemical burns to the face.

Because God knows people with jobs who pay taxes might have to drive somewhere.

[Neil]

I've got huge problems with American/Euro style policing.  This and the NY traffic case are examples why.  On the other hand I think it's a cultural difference - like having guns - that I just won't ever get so there's not much of use to say.

What do you think is the appropriate way to get demonstrators to leave a place they're not supposed to be?

I don't know anything about The UC-Davis Pepper Spraying, but it looks from the pic that they're blocking a road and the copper wants them to leave.  Go up on the grassy knoll with the other demonstrators.

Because God knows in a free country like ours you do exactly what a copper wants or you get chemical burns to the face.

In a free country, punks like that get shot by citizens that they are trying to hurt.  Because we are kind, they get pepper-sprayed by professionals instead.

[Sheilbh]

What do you think is the appropriate way to get demonstrators to leave a place they're not supposed to be?

I don't know, I imagine the rules'll vary by jurisdiction.  In the UK I think they'd probably have a cordon put round them and dispersed slowly over the day. 

The police shouldn't be the ones escalating from non-violent protest to the use of pepper spray.  Also the fact that the police are in riot gear at that sort of event is absolutely absurd and speaks volumes of their mentality.  Riot gear's required when a situation's escalated to provide officers with physical safety.  It shouldn't be there at a peaceful protest.

Edit:  Actually looking at the footage just picked them up one by one.  No need for kettling or anything like that.  You've got a small number of people passively resisting.  That shouldn't be beyond the ken of a police force to deal with non-violently.

I don't know anything about The UC-Davis Pepper Spraying, but it looks from the pic that they're blocking a road and the copper wants them to leave.  Go up on the grassy knoll with the other demonstrators.

This is an attitude I really dislike and find difficult to comprehend.  But it comes up whenever there's a tasing/pepper spray/police brutality thread.

Because God knows people with jobs who pay taxes might have to drive somewhere.

I think they'r just in campus on a path, not on a public highway

[Neil]

The police shouldn't be the ones escalating from non-violent protest to the use of pepper spray.  Also the fact that the police are in riot gear at that sort of event is absolutely absurd and speaks volumes of their mentality.  Riot gear's required when a situation's escalated to provide officers with physical safety.  It shouldn't be there at a peaceful protest.

We've learned from assorted G8 and IMF protests that there is no such thing as a peaceful protest anymore.  All protests are just waiting to turn violent, because all protesters are criminals.

[Neil]

I don't know anything about The UC-Davis Pepper Spraying, but it looks from the pic that they're blocking a road and the copper wants them to leave.  Go up on the grassy knoll with the other demonstrators.

This is an attitude I really dislike and find difficult to comprehend.  But it comes up whenever there's a tasing/pepper spray/police brutality thread.

Society has decided that when you're an asshole, you pay a price.

[Admiral Yi]

This is an attitude I really dislike and find difficult to comprehend.  But it comes up whenever there's a tasing/pepper spray/police brutality thread.

I also find it bizarre that in your world demonstrators get a veto on use of public space.

[Sheilbh]

I also find it bizarre that in your world demonstrators get a veto on use of public space.

I've no issue with the polce moving demonstrators on or breaking demonstrations up.

[Admiral Yi]

I've no issue with the polce moving demonstrators on or breaking demonstrations up.

It seems you do have an issue with police moving demonstrators along who are unwilling to move along.

[Capetan Mihali]

Yi acknowledges not knowing shit about this incident, but dammit, any police brutality is good police brutality and someone needs to step up to defend it.  And Neil is in his usual troll mode. 

A country where the go-to police response to passive resistance in the furtherance of political speech (which, incidentally, courts have always deferred to in this country over other kinds of behavior, the sine qua non of protected speech) is blasting seated people in the face with industrial pepper spray from 2 feet away is a country that... fill in the blank. 

[citizen k]

Real solidarity is a powerful feeling.  If you're lucky enough to experience it once, I can imagine it might be life-defining.

Indeed, just ask these guys:

[chipwich]

This is an attitude I really dislike and find difficult to comprehend.  But it comes up whenever there's a tasing/pepper spray/police brutality thread.

I also find it bizarre that in your world demonstrators get a veto on use of public space.

Thing is pepper spray is supposed to be like a gun in terms of when you're supposed to use it. Even if they were taking up the space, he should just write them a ticket. Or whack them with a nightstick or whatever police do for that.

[Sheilbh]

It seems you do have an issue with police moving demonstrators along who are unwilling to move along.

Not at all.  My objection's the escalation and the attitudes involved.  The attitude that justifies it on the ground that they're disobeying the police I just don't get and the casual use of pepper spray is something I find unsettling in a police force.

In this example, as I say, I think there's passive resistance going on but it looks like a group that's dispersable. I don't think there's a need for any tough crowd control measures like kettling.  There's certainly no need for the police to be using pepper spray, in riot gear or carrying those paintball guns.  The use of force by the police and riot gear should only be because it's essential to preserve public order, or for their own safety.  I don't think either looks the case here.

[Capetan Mihali]

Real solidarity is a powerful feeling.  If you're lucky enough to experience it once, I can imagine it might be life-defining.

Indeed, just ask these guys:

  Or these:



If the political term is deployed in a way that capitalist power interests find comfortable, especially from a distance, it's eye-wateringly moving.  Those brave Poles!    If it's used otherwise, yuo = Hitler.  Comprendo.