Troy Davis execution

[Admiral Yi]

Oh, and there is going to be a vigil at my university for Davis. What do you guys think the prospects are for scoring some tail at said event?

1/20 going in cold, 1/5 warm.

[Caliga]

I was in favor of a delay until I heard Europeans open their big stupid ape like mouths on the issue.

Stick the needle in.

Yeah.  Less worrying about our bidness and more fixing your sovereign debt problems, Euroweenies.

That said, I'm opposed to capital punishment, but don't understand why this guy's case is special or is more deserving of commutation than anyone else's.

[Capetan Mihali]

Execution delayed as the US Supreme Court debates whether to grant a stay of execution...

[Razgovory]

I thought the Texas arson case was the more interesting.  Incidentally Perry was governor at the time and has been accused of blocking any investigation into it.

[Kleves]

Execution delayed as the US Supreme Court debates whether to grant a stay of execution...

They granted that five minutes after the guy was supposed to have been executed. Better late then never, I guess.

[Viking]

Heard the DA who tried the case interviewed on CNN.  He pointed out that the defense team had possession of the recantations and sat on them (for years??) until 8 days before the orginal execution date.  And that a court examined the recantations and found them not credible.

At the evidentiary hearing ordered by the U.S. Supreme Court (which was a very unusual move), the defense also did not actually call the witnesses, but merely relied on their affidavits.

Oh, and there is going to be a vigil at my university for Davis. What do you guys think the prospects are for scoring some tail at said event?

Follow the smell of pachouli and thou wilt scoreth if thee condemneth the wickedness of republicans.

[Berkut]

I am not against the death penalty, but I do demand that those slated to be executed get a fair trial, have their guilt absolutely proven and that their appeals are heard promptly and fairly.

Berkut is going to respond how unjust death penalty is not worse than prison sentence in 3. 2. 1...

Berkut never made any such claim. Stop being such a liar.

[viper37]

I am not against the death penalty, but I do demand that those slated to be executed get a fair trial, have their guilt absolutely proven and that their appeals are heard promptly and fairly.

Berkut is going to respond how unjust death penalty is not worse than prison sentence in 3. 2. 1...

Berkut never made any such claim. Stop being such a liar.

You did say so in a way.
You said when it comes to an innocent being found guilty, prison or death sentence was equivalent, neither could be corrected and it wasn't a valid argument to be agains death penalty.

[DGuller]

I think that was sort of my argument, with which Berkut agreed, IIRC.  However, the point of my argument was that it's kind of stupid to attack death penalty because there could have been a wrongful conviction.  So, wrongfully sending a guy to prison for the rest of his life is not that bad?  This is an argument against wrongful conviction, not against death penalty.

[Razgovory]

I think that was sort of my argument, with which Berkut agreed, IIRC.  However, the point of my argument was that it's kind of stupid to attack death penalty because there could have been a wrongful conviction.  So, wrongfully sending a guy to prison for the rest of his life is not that bad?  This is an argument against wrongful conviction, not against death penalty.

Well, you can sorta fix a wrongful jail sentence.  You can let him go and hope bygones will be bygones.  If you execute him, there's less chance of that.

[DGuller]

Well, you can sorta fix a wrongful jail sentence.  You can let him go and hope bygones will be bygones.  If you execute him, there's less chance of that.

You can't take back years or decades of someone's life.  Making the puishment partially reversible isn't really a compelling fix to the wrongful conviction problem.

[Berkut]

I am not against the death penalty, but I do demand that those slated to be executed get a fair trial, have their guilt absolutely proven and that their appeals are heard promptly and fairly.

Berkut is going to respond how unjust death penalty is not worse than prison sentence in 3. 2. 1...

Berkut never made any such claim. Stop being such a liar.

You did say so in a way.
You said when it comes to an innocent being found guilty, prison or death sentence was equivalent, neither could be corrected and it wasn't a valid argument to be agains death penalty.

No, what I said was that opposition to the DP because it may result in unjust execution of someone and that is different than unlawful imprisonment because it is more permanent is fallacious, since we know that there are plenty of cases of unjust imprisonment that are never justly resolved, and hence is just as permanent as a unjust death penalty.

That is not even remotely similar to saying that killing someone is not worse than a death sentence.

[Berkut]

Well, you can sorta fix a wrongful jail sentence.  You can let him go and hope bygones will be bygones.  If you execute him, there's less chance of that.

You can't take back years or decades of someone's life.  Making the puishment partially reversible isn't really a compelling fix to the wrongful conviction problem.

Christ, this is really not that hard of an idea.

Yes, you CAN in some particular case, fix a unjust imprisonment. Hell, we can even stipulate for the sake of argument that you can even make the person unjustly imprisoned whole via some kind of compensation.

That doesn't address my point in any way, shape, or form however. My point is that no matter what CAN happen in a particular case, we are 100% certain that there are many, many cases where it is never fixed. Therefore, it is certainly the case that the system of incarceration is just as flawed in that it will *certainly* result in people going to jail who should not and who will never be exonerated. IE, from the permanence perspective, they are no different than someone executed.

The fact that some people WILL in fact be exonerated has no more relevance than the fact that some DP inmates are exonerated has on the permanence argument - we know that some are not, hence the problem remains.

My point is very simple. There is no difference from a permanence standpoint between the two systems. They both suffer from the flaw that innocent people will be unjustly punished and will never be exonerated.

[Razgovory]

Well, you can sorta fix a wrongful jail sentence.  You can let him go and hope bygones will be bygones.  If you execute him, there's less chance of that.

You can't take back years or decades of someone's life.  Making the puishment partially reversible isn't really a compelling fix to the wrongful conviction problem.

This is true, but you are always going to get wrongful convictions, and every person wrongfully convicted has a very compelling reason to fix it.  I don't care for the death penalty for religious reasons (stone age fairy worshiper that I am), and that it's really expensive.  Also I'm not really sure it deters crime.  There are some exceptions.  For instance, war criminals or deserters in war time.

[Ideologue]

I am not against the death penalty, but I do demand that those slated to be executed get a fair trial, have their guilt absolutely proven and that their appeals are heard promptly and fairly.

Berkut is going to respond how unjust death penalty is not worse than prison sentence in 3. 2. 1...

It's not.