Parti Québécois Balkanizes

[Oexmelin]

I think the problem they have is that they see the Anglo media as reporting only (both positive and negative stories) to reinforce a pre-existing image, or story, or vision of Quebec.  Much the same way as parts of the European press reports the US, or vice-versa.  The difference is that in Canada it's internal. But I could be wrong.

That's exactly it. With the added touch that part of that pre-existing image is that Quebec is made up of a bunch of whiners, and thus every complaint can safely be filed away as «proof».

[Malthus]

In 2009 Pauline Marois raised much controversy, even amongst her own party when Marois suggested the immigrants and anglophones be denied health care if they cannot speak French.

Wow.  She sounds groovy.

From Wikipedia? Source of the quote is strangely unreferenced. Haven't found the source of the quote either.

I havent heard it before.  I am pretty sure such an outrageous statement would be reported even out here.

I doubt it is accurate.

However, the PQ "Identity Act" she did champion sounds almost as outrageous:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/quebecvotes2008/story/2008/11/04/qv-leaderprofile-marois.html

The PQ's Identity Act would prevent immigrants who fail to develop their French-language skills from running for public office, raising funds for a political party or petitioning the National Assembly with a grievance.

Quebec's francophone majority must stop feeling afraid of appearing intolerant, Marois said. Creating Quebec citizenship would send a strong message to immigrants, especially those who choose English over French when they settle in the province, she said.

See also: http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/10/30/us-quebec-idUSN3064954020071030

Just to be sure this was not faulty reporting, I looked it up.

10. The Civil Code of Québec (1991, chapter 64) is amended by inserting
the following title after article 49:
"TITLE TWO.1
"QUÉBEC CITIZENSHIP
"49.1. Québec citizenship is hereby established.
"49.2. A person is a Québec citizen if the person
(1) is a Canadian citizen and is domiciled in Québec on (insert the date of
coming into force of this Act); or
(2) was born in Québec after (insert the date of coming into force of this
Act), or was born abroad after (insert the date of coming into force of this Act)
to a parent who, at that time, was a Québec citizen.
The Minister grants citizenship to any person who
6
(1) has been a Canadian citizen for at least three months;
(2) is domiciled in Québec;
(3) has effectively resided in Québec for six months, including the three
months preceding the date of the person's application;
(4) has an appropriate knowledge of the French language; and
(5) has an appropriate knowledge of Québec and of the responsibilities and
advantages of citizenship.
"49.3. A person granted citizenship must take the following oath before
the Minister of Justice or the person designated by the Minister:
"I, (name of citizen), swear that I will be loyal to the people of Québec, that
I will faithfully observe the laws of Québec and that I will faithfully fulfill my
duties as a citizen in compliance with the Québec Constitution."
"49.4. If, on a report from the Minister of Justice, the Government is
satisfied that a person has obtained citizenship under this Title by fraud or
false representation or by knowingly concealing material facts, it may issue an
order under which the person ceases to be a citizen as of the date specified.
"49.5. The Minister of Justice issues a citizenship card to any citizen
who applies for one.
The card is valid only if the citizen is in compliance with this Code and with
the rules governing the taking of the oath of citizenship.
"49.6. A person who is a Québec citizen has the right to
(1) run in municipal, school and legislative elections;
(2) participate in the public funding of political parties; and
(3) petition the National Assembly for the redress of grievances.

From: http://www.assnat.qc.ca/en/travaux-parlementaires/projets-loi/projets-loi-38-1.html

[Malthus]

I think the problem they have is that they see the Anglo media as reporting only (both positive and negative stories) to reinforce a pre-existing image, or story, or vision of Quebec.  Much the same way as parts of the European press reports the US, or vice-versa.  The difference is that in Canada it's internal. But I could be wrong.

That's exactly it. With the added touch that part of that pre-existing image is that Quebec is made up of a bunch of whiners, and thus every complaint can safely be filed away as «proof».

It is this perception which effectively makes it impossible for some in Quebec to take any sort of criticism about anything from outside the province - for example, corruption - and leads to such bizzare abortions as the "Quebec Identity Act" being seriously proposed.

[Neil]

The PQ's Identity Act would prevent immigrants who fail to develop their French-language skills from running for public office, raising funds for a political party or petitioning the National Assembly with a grievance.

Surely that didn't pass though?  And doesn't Quebec have some sort of law that allows for the equal protection under the law?

[Grey Fox]

The PQ's Identity Act would prevent immigrants who fail to develop their French-language skills from running for public office, raising funds for a political party or petitioning the National Assembly with a grievance.

Surely that didn't pass though?  And doesn't Quebec have some sort of law that allows for the equal protection under the law?

Hasn't been voted on yet.  It's still in the presentation stage. It doesn't have any chance to pass but it probably does break a couple other laws.

[Zoupa]

Point here is that in this very thread when a recent leaked report demonstrating the existence of a corruption problem was brought up, the consensus from the Quebec contingent was not that corruption was a problem, but that the "Toronto media" discussing corruption was.  :lol

You are so incredibly full of shit.

[HVC]

In 2009 Pauline Marois raised much controversy, even amongst her own party when Marois suggested the immigrants and anglophones be denied health care if they cannot speak French.

Wow.  She sounds groovy.

From Wikipedia? Source of the quote is strangely unreferenced. Haven't found the source of the quote either.

I havent heard it before.  I am pretty sure such an outrageous statement would be reported even out here.

I doubt it is accurate.

However, the PQ "Identity Act" she did champion sounds almost as outrageous:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/quebecvotes2008/story/2008/11/04/qv-leaderprofile-marois.html

The PQ's Identity Act would prevent immigrants who fail to develop their French-language skills from running for public office, raising funds for a political party or petitioning the National Assembly with a grievance.

Starts off ok. i can sort of see the french language for running for office, but then it just goes crazy.


also, what's with the spat of quebec threads lately

[viper37]

In 2009 Pauline Marois raised much controversy, even amongst her own party when Marois suggested the immigrants and anglophones be denied health care if they cannot speak French.

Wow.  She sounds groovy.

I do not remember that, so I tried to find it, and I ended up empty handed, so I call bullshit on this one.
The only thing I found was this (in short: you can't be a candidate in any election if you don't speak French)
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=e37f0027-75cb-41c4-81a2-31b43f5c6360
Still racist, but nowhere near as drastic.  And at the time, the PQ was the 3rd party in the parliament, so it strikes me as a desperate move to regain some support among the hardcore separatists, or the Grallonite wing as CC put it.

Although she appeared stubborned on this idea while being attacked from inside her own party, once she regain official opposition status, it never re-appeared anywhere in her program.

[viper37]

Anglos will vote Liberals for the time being.  Any hint of nationalism, economic or otherwise is seen as bad for them.

You really can't blame them for that though, can you?

I can, and I do.

[viper37]

It is this perception which effectively makes it impossible for some in Quebec to take any sort of criticism about anything from outside the province - for example, corruption - and leads to such bizzare abortions as the "Quebec Identity Act" being seriously proposed.

Again, you act as if this came out of nowhere and no one here was talking about.
It took some time, but finally the left has realized there's something wrong with the way the construction industry is working in Quebec.
Of course, the current PQ leader does not want an investigation to extend to post-2003 PQ, it should only cover pre-2003 PQ and post 2003 Liberal...  how strange
Engineering firms do finance political parties, illegally, it happened before and will happen again.  Someone close to me used to tell me he received money from his boss to donate to the Liberals, and that was in the 80s.
Another person I know witnessed his former boss giving suitcases full of cash to someone prior to the construction of a new hotel in downtown Montreal, during the 80s.
In Baie-Comeau, at least one contractor had to pay no-show jobs to some union thugs in order to achieve "peace" on the construction site (such as not having your machinery blow up on startup).
On Anticosti island, I had to pay an 8000$ fine because I brought outsiders to the island, while the other contractor wasn't bothered at all.  He made a deal with the union first, and he brought his own guys.

A few years ago, one of Quebec's top construction entrepreneur crashed his plane in Northern Quebec.  Onboard was the most powerful union boss and his son.

There is a corruption problem, mainly having to do with over-reliance to the government for everything, but I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe it's worst here than elsewhere in Canada, be it BC or Ontario.  And I know for a fact Boston had quite a few problems with corruption during the Big Dig project.

Also, don't forget that in most provinces, and at the Federal level until very recently, corporate donations to political parties were allowed.  It's called corruption in Quebec because it's been illegal since 1976, but in 2002 in Ottawa, it was business as usual.

[Neil]

Anglos will vote Liberals for the time being.  Any hint of nationalism, economic or otherwise is seen as bad for them.

You really can't blame them for that though, can you?

I can, and I do.

Nobody will vote for a party that wants to put them in concentration camps.

[Razgovory]

Anglos will vote Liberals for the time being.  Any hint of nationalism, economic or otherwise is seen as bad for them.

You really can't blame them for that though, can you?

I can, and I do.

Nobody will vote for a party that wants to put them in concentration camps.

Siege would.  If you did some kind of blind test and gave him a party program without saying who they are and who they wish to fight he'd vote for Hamas.

[viper37]

Nobody will vote for a party that wants to put them in concentration camps.

Are there any like that?  Official party listed on the election ballot, I mean, not fringe movement with 3 members arming themselves for the upcoming Canadian&American invasion.

[Malthus]

Point here is that in this very thread when a recent leaked report demonstrating the existence of a corruption problem was brought up, the consensus from the Quebec contingent was not that corruption was a problem, but that the "Toronto media" discussing corruption was.  :lol

You are so incredibly full of shit.

Yeah, same to you.

From page 1:

We would be more satisfied if the Toronto media would never talk about us.

Bingo. In any way, positive or negative.

[Malthus]

The PQ's Identity Act would prevent immigrants who fail to develop their French-language skills from running for public office, raising funds for a political party or petitioning the National Assembly with a grievance.

Surely that didn't pass though?  And doesn't Quebec have some sort of law that allows for the equal protection under the law?

I can't imagine that it could possibly pass, or that if it did, that it could survive a constitutional challenge. It is simply odd that a bill effectively creating a class of second-class citizens would even be seriously proposed.