Wikileaks - 2007: UN told to drop ‘Taiwan is part of China’ by US

[Brazen]

Is the existence of an independent Taiwan really of fundamental strategic importance to the US?  At what point do the drawbacks of supporting the RoC against the PRC outweigh the benefits?  I would posit that the threshold is not very high.

US arms sales to Taiwan, which China is rather unhappy about.

[Josquius]

We should support Taiwan's independence on the principle of the matter.

Taiwan's not declared independence and they don't want it.  One China!

I think they do, they're just worried about upsetting the PRC. The only reason Taiwan still keeps its claims on the continent is if it  gets rid of them it is pretty much declaring independance which will annoy the reds.

[dps]

Is the existence of an independent Taiwan really of fundamental strategic importance to the US?  At what point do the drawbacks of supporting the RoC against the PRC outweigh the benefits?  I would posit that the threshold is not very high.

US arms sales to Taiwan, which China is rather unhappy about.

Not sure what you mean here.  Are you saying that those arms sales are of fundamental strategic importance to the US?  If that's it, I can't agree with that at all.  Or are you saying that the drawback of the PRC being unhappy about American arm sales to Taiwan is enough to outweigh any advantages we gain from backing Taiwan?  I don't really buy that either.

[Ideologue]

No kidding.  Supporting the RoC, and more abstractly democracy and liberty, is an end in itself, you cynics.

When did Europe become the isolationist branch of Western civilization?

[Razgovory]

No kidding.  Supporting the RoC, and more abstractly democracy and liberty, is an end in itself, you cynics.

When did Europe become the isolationist branch of Western civilization?

Agree.  I'd be less inclined to support the RoC if it was some sort of military dictatorship/basket case, but they have blossomed into a genuine democracy.  That's worth supporting.  Incidentally I think the Nixon solution to the RoC-PRC problem was probably the most brilliant diplomatic move of the last century.

[Habbaku]

Why is it very good? What's the point of supporting one cronyist cleptocratic country against another?

You really are a clueless cretin.

[Berkut]

I always find discussion like this just bizarre.

It is total doublespeak.

The reality is that Taiwan is a separate and soverein nation from China. Whether China wants to admit it, and whether Taiwan wants to admit it, that is the reality.

I don't know why people who are not involved in the political game of pretending like Taiwan is or is not sovereign insist on pretending like it is more than a game.

Supporting one over the other? huh?

There is no question of supporting Taiwan over China - last I checked Taiwan was not planning or threatening to invade China and remove their government, at least not for the last several decades. There is no equivalence between the two when it comes to the issue. If China started making noise about taking over South Korea, that would be about as legit as them taking over Taiwan in any actual practical sense.

Would people say "Meh, what do I care about South Korea for?" in that case? Hell, maybe they would, but at least then it would be simple honest "I don't give a shit" rather than some kind of bizarro buying into the doublespeak that claims that Taiwan doesn't really exist.

[Valmy]

I always find discussion like this just bizarre.

It is total doublespeak.

The reality is that Taiwan is a separate and soverein nation from China. Whether China wants to admit it, and whether Taiwan wants to admit it, that is the reality.

I don't know why people who are not involved in the political game of pretending like Taiwan is or is not sovereign insist on pretending like it is more than a game.

Eh convenient agreed upon fiction is the very basis of so many international agreements why does this one offend you so much?  If peace and positive relations are preserved by this fiction what difference does it make?  Sort of like how NATO is an alliance of equals.

[PRC]

Mainland China is a renegade province.

The seat of the Dragon Throne is in mainland China... he who sits in it rules legitimately.

[The Brain]

Mainland China is a renegade province.

The seat of the Dragon Throne is in mainland China... he who sits in it rules legitimately.

A little person?

[Valmy]

The seat of the Dragon Throne is in mainland China... he who sits in it rules legitimately.

The Kuomintang should have taken it with them when they left.

[Eddie Teach]

China has a better claim on Taiwan than Tibet. But it's a lot harder to get a carrier group to the Himalayas.

[Sheilbh]

China has a better claim on Taiwan than Tibet. But it's a lot harder to get a carrier group to the Himalayas.

The PRC Ministry that deals with Taiwan is the same that deals with Hong Kong and Macau.  I think as long as everyone keeps the fiction going Taiwan, like the SAR, are kind-of geese that lay the golden egg.  Tibet's a lot less economically useful whatever its status.

[Neil]

Mainland China is a renegade province.

The seat of the Dragon Throne is in mainland China... he who sits in it rules legitimately.

Does the Party sit on a throne now?

[Eddie Teach]

Well, their surging economy suggests they've held the Mandate of Heaven ever since Mao died.