Canada to firmly re-assess its status as a British colony

[Zoupa]

It is not reasonable to use the coercive power of the government to support the culture of one subset of its citizens over another by enacting restictions that go beyond that, to enact measures designed symbolically to emphasize the primacy of one culture over another, to interfere in the free exercise of a parent's choice of language for the education of their children so as to enculturate them with the majority culture even though the parents do not wish this, simply because they are immigrants to the province, etc. 

Hi, I come from Botswana and want to have my kids schooled in Swahili, in Brampton Ontario. Please pay for it, this needs to be a public school. 

Actually if there was as large a prescence of Swahili in Ontario as there is for English in Quebec I bet Ontario would cave and pay for it.

So do we. 

[Zoupa]

It is not reasonable to use the coercive power of the government to support the culture of one subset of its citizens over another by enacting restictions that go beyond that, to enact measures designed symbolically to emphasize the primacy of one culture over another, to interfere in the free exercise of a parent's choice of language for the education of their children so as to enculturate them with the majority culture even though the parents do not wish this, simply because they are immigrants to the province, etc. 

Hi, I come from Botswana and want to have my kids schooled in Swahili, in Brampton Ontario. Please pay for it, this needs to be a public school. 

I honestly would not care, if the parents could make a case that this would not disadvantage the child - which I would imagine would be difficult to do with Swahili.

English, or French, on the other hand, are languages that would easily pass that test.

I don't understand, you just wrote that it is not reasonable to use the coercive power of the government to interfere in the free exercise of a parent's choice of language for the education of their children so as to enculturate them with the majority culture even though the parents do not wish this, simply because they are immigrants to the province.

[viper37]

Man - I sure am feeling the love from quebec after arguing with CC and Malthus that Quebec does actually have the right to take steps to protect the French language.

[Zoupa]

The sense of entitlement of anglocanadians is pretty staggering, not to mention the veiled comparisons to the gestapo, hints at racism etc.

Man have you got blinders on.  The Francophones are the ones who want to institute State restrictions on language.  The PQ has blamed past losses in neverendums to "immigrants" - which is exactly why limiting immigration is so appealing to some of you.  The society described by Grallon does have striking similarities to State restriction of free expression which has been tried in past Fascist and Communist regimes.

If you are touchy about that then you might want to look a little closer at the extremes of your political sympathies.

Here we go. You're too much dude. Keep that fantasy alive please, and spread it around. That will only mean less public support in the RoC next time you guys try to buy referendum votes.

[Malthus]

It is not reasonable to use the coercive power of the government to support the culture of one subset of its citizens over another by enacting restictions that go beyond that, to enact measures designed symbolically to emphasize the primacy of one culture over another, to interfere in the free exercise of a parent's choice of language for the education of their children so as to enculturate them with the majority culture even though the parents do not wish this, simply because they are immigrants to the province, etc. 

Hi, I come from Botswana and want to have my kids schooled in Swahili, in Brampton Ontario. Please pay for it, this needs to be a public school. 

I honestly would not care, if the parents could make a case that this would not disadvantage the child - which I would imagine would be difficult to do with Swahili.

English, or French, on the other hand, are languages that would easily pass that test.

I don't understand, you just wrote that it is not reasonable to use the coercive power of the government to interfere in the free exercise of a parent's choice of language for the education of their children so as to enculturate them with the majority culture even though the parents do not wish this, simply because they are immigrants to the province.

What's not to understand? In the case of an obscure language, enculturation isn't the reason for restriction. More like "the kid will be harmed if s/he is educated only in Swahili. Oh, and we don't have any Swahili teachers anyway".

Is that really a problem with English?

[Neil]

I think the people who are getting overlooked here are Montreal's Anglophone community, who have a proud and noble heritage and don't deserve the cultural genocide being perpetrated by a deeply racist francophone majority.

[Oexmelin]

Like many pleas for double standards, this one doesn't bear any scrutiny. The offensiveness of calling for people in Ontario to only speak English is not caused by the fact that such a call would be effective, or because such a call is necessary - neither is true - but because it is denigrating to those who choose to speak French. That is why people in Quebec would (rightfully) howl in outrage if anyone did it.

It simply returns to the fundamental disagrement we have: you argue from a position detached from context, and I argue that contexts allows us to better understand the position.

Yet, your position is by necessity bound within a context. People calling for English to be spoken in the US will be received much differently if they are uttered by people with a history of fighting illegal immigration, or if they are reminded by people fearing school problems. Such a call would also take into account the social dynamics of the US, the assimilation which happens, etc.

And it is the same in Canada. To a certain extent, you are right: there is an element of double standards at play - which is dependent upon the unique Canadian context. Since the 1970s, Quebec has adopted a unique official unilingualism with a strong, lived, officious bilingualism which is much stronger than in many places in Canada. Canada, in reverse, has an official bilingualism with what is, in effect, a strong, lived, officious unilingualism. Because of that very dichotomy, both sides attack what they perceive to be the weakest point of the adversary: the official policies of Quebec, and the actual assimilating social dynamics of the Rest of Canada. As long as we remain on one "side", there is little possible dialogue.

[Valmy]

I think the people who are getting overlooked here are Montreal's Anglophone community, who have a proud and noble heritage and don't deserve the cultural genocide being perpetrated by a deeply racist francophone majority.

But seriously Zoup said the historical English groups get their schools in English.

[Neil]

I think the people who are getting overlooked here are Montreal's Anglophone community, who have a proud and noble heritage and don't deserve the cultural genocide being perpetrated by a deeply racist francophone majority.

But seriously Zoup said the historical English groups get their schools in English.

They're not immune to the language Gestapo strolling around checking signs.

Really, we should have just carved Montreal out of Quebec and included it in Ontario in 1980, for the sake of human rights.

[The Brain]

If mouth sugar or Ogle were here I'd ask them about the details regarding the Swedish-speaking parts of Finland.

[Berkut]

So am I correct that the basic claim Oex of the Francophones in respect to the rest of Canada is that the official bilingualism is practically non-existent?

While the official unilingualism of Quebec is practically bilingualism?

[Oexmelin]

But seriously Zoup said the historical English groups get their schools in English.

Yes, they do. As well as three universities, eight hospitals, a newspaper, tons of TV chanels, including local ones, and half a dozen radio chanels.

[Malthus]

But seriously Zoup said the historical English groups get their schools in English.

This is true. see the legislation.

73. The following children, at the request of one of their parents, may receive instruction in English:


(1) a child whose father or mother is a Canadian citizen and received elementary instruction in English in Canada, provided that that instruction constitutes the major part of the elementary instruction he or she received in Canada;


(2) a child whose father or mother is a Canadian citizen and who has received or is receiving elementary or secondary instruction in English in Canada, and the brothers and sisters of that child, provided that that instruction constitutes the major part of the elementary or secondary instruction received by the child in Canada;

...


86.1. In addition to the cases provided for in section 73, the Government, by order, may, at the request of one of the parents, authorize generally the following children to receive their instruction in English:


(a) a child whose father or mother received the greater part of his or her elementary instruction in English elsewhere in Canada and, before establishing domicile in Québec, was domiciled in a province or territory that it indicates in the order and where it considers that the services of instruction in French offered to French-speaking persons are comparable to those offered in English to English-speaking persons in Québec;


(b) a child whose father or mother establishes domicile in Québec and who, during his last school year or from the beginning of the current school year, has received primary or secondary instruction in English in the province or territory indicated in the order;


(c) the younger brothers and sisters of children described in subparagraphs a and b.


Applicability.
Sections 76 to 79 apply to the persons contemplated in this section.

From Chapter VIII, here.

http://www2.publicationsduquebec.gouv.qc.ca/dynamicSearch/telecharge.php?type=2&file=/C_11/C11_A.html

Effectively, these provisions make immigrants, and those who are Canadians and cannot prove "anglo-ness" in educational matters, get (public) education in French.

[Valmy]

So am I correct that the basic claim Oex of the Francophones in respect to the rest of Canada is that the official bilingualism is practically non-existent?

I thought he was saying there is official bilingualism but in fact there is monolingualism.  Whereas in Quebec there is official monolingualism but in fact there is bilingualism.

[Barrister]

It is not reasonable to use the coercive power of the government to support the culture of one subset of its citizens over another by enacting restictions that go beyond that, to enact measures designed symbolically to emphasize the primacy of one culture over another, to interfere in the free exercise of a parent's choice of language for the education of their children so as to enculturate them with the majority culture even though the parents do not wish this, simply because they are immigrants to the province, etc. 

Hi, I come from Botswana and want to have my kids schooled in Swahili, in Brampton Ontario. Please pay for it, this needs to be a public school. 

I was just reminded that I saw whole bunch of ads on my commuter train this morning encouraging people to enroll their kids in the Ukrainian Bilingual program of the Edmonson school board.