Canada to firmly re-assess its status as a British colony

[Valmy]

Fair point, but when I say a francophone education I mean exactly that - everything is in French.  It's not French classes for English speakers.

As I understand it.  Feel free to correct me.

The only class I ever took in French, meant for French speakers, was a physics course and really math and science jargon is the same in any language.  So I am probably not knowledgable enough to know.

[Zoupa]

It seems unfair to me that if you're an anglophone immigrant to Quebec (either from the Rest of Canada, or somewhere else in the world) that you'd be denied schooling in your own native, official language.

Once again, you forget the unilingual part. Sigh. I want to come to alberta and get free schooling in Swahili. That makes about as much sense.

You can say all you want about Canada being a bilingual confederation (what a joke btw). 99% of quebecers don't give a rat's ass what policies are enacted in the ROC. We never signed the damn charter anyways. You guys can decide to all start speaking mandarin for all we care.

[Valmy]

you want about Canada being a bilingual confederation (what a joke btw).

Man...no Pierre Trudeau points for you.

[Zoupa]

Har har. It gets annoying when it happens almost all the time. Especially when you answer in french and they call somebody else to serve you. Wtf. How did you get your job if you don't speak the language.

Okay, I didn't give the sarcastic response before, but ZOMG - the horror!  The system works the way it should!

The system doesn't work, no. Hence the only 51% of allophones functional in french. Hence the proposals for added funding, more classes.

Sometimes I wish we had a language police like all you wasps think we do. Then you could bitch and moan even more, wring your hands and do nothing, the Canadian way.

[Barrister]

It seems unfair to me that if you're an anglophone immigrant to Quebec (either from the Rest of Canada, or somewhere else in the world) that you'd be denied schooling in your own native, official language.

Once again, you forget the unilingual part. Sigh. I want to come to alberta and get free schooling in Swahili. That makes about as much sense.

You can say all you want about Canada being a bilingual confederation (what a joke btw). 99% of quebecers don't give a rat's ass what policies are enacted in the ROC. We never signed the damn charter anyways. You guys can decide to all start speaking mandarin for all we care.

So you think there is no difference in Alberta between French and Swahili?  Do you think that English and Swahili should be treated the same in Quebec?

Man - I sure am feeling the love from quebec after arguing with CC and Malthus that Quebec does actually have the right to take steps to protect the French language.

[Jacob]

You can say all you want about Canada being a bilingual confederation (what a joke btw). 99% of quebecers don't give a rat's ass what policies are enacted in the ROC. We never signed the damn charter anyways. You guys can decide to all start speaking mandarin for all we care.

Nonetheless, when I walk into a government of Canada office in downtown Vancouver I'm greeted in French and English and all the services are available completely in French.

Are you saying that we should just forget about that, then?

No wonder Francophones outside of Quebec often have a dim view of the policies and influence of Quebec.

[Jacob]

The system doesn't work, no. Hence the only 51% of allophones functional in french. Hence the proposals for added funding, more classes.

Sometimes I wish we had a language police like all you wasps think we do. Then you could bitch and moan even more, wring your hands and do nothing, the Canadian way.

Why are you so cranky today, Zoupa? I mean, you're usually pretty spirited but this a bit out of the ordinary.

[crazy canuck]

I have read the platform statements of the new party and they dont sound nearly so benign as all that.  They want to prevent Francophones from attending Anglophone educational institutions.  They want to prevent any immigrant from attending an Anglophone educational institution.  They want to reduce immigration to the province.

We have not read the same thing. Except for the reducing immigration for a two year period, the rest is not in their platform.

That is what the globe was reporting yesterday.  I just read a translation of the actual platform and you are correct.  It is not there.

[Zoupa]

The system doesn't work, no. Hence the only 51% of allophones functional in french. Hence the proposals for added funding, more classes.

Sometimes I wish we had a language police like all you wasps think we do. Then you could bitch and moan even more, wring your hands and do nothing, the Canadian way.

Why are you so cranky today, Zoupa? I mean, you're usually pretty spirited but this a bit out of the ordinary.

I've explained and explained the school system here hundreds of times. It gets tiring. The sense of entitlement of anglocanadians is pretty staggering, not to mention the veiled comparisons to the gestapo, hints at racism etc. The comments are not so veiled elsewhere btw, like from toronto newspapers editorials or comments.

[Malthus]

Hey Malthus (and CC, since I think you guys are in agreement) to what degree do you think it's reasonable for Quebec to enact policies to protect and promote the French language and Quebecois culture?

Is anything more than "government services must be provided in French" unreasonable? Or are there legitimate ways for the government to influence the language used in the public sphere, in your view? Or is it straight up up to the French language to sink or swim on its own, without any government action?

I think it is perfectly reasonable to legislate that anyone who wants to ought to be served in the French language, and that governmental and commercial publications (if the commercial entity is over a certain size) ought to be made available in French. In short, to prevent people who speak French from being prevented access to materials in their own language (though why commercial entities would *want* to alienate their customer-base by *not* doing so defies understanding).

It is not reasonable to use the coercive power of the government to support the culture of one subset of its citizens over another by enacting restictions that go beyond that, to enact measures designed symbolically to emphasize the primacy of one culture over another, to interfere in the free exercise of a parent's choice of language for the education of their children so as to enculturate them with the majority culture even though the parents do not wish this, simply because they are immigrants to the province, etc. 

Stuff like exhorting people to always speak French is more of an annoyance, drawing the 'mind your own business" response. The problem with such exhortations is that they attempt to make somehow "wrong" something that has no moral weight whatsoever - namely, speaking one's choice of language. They also needlessly exacerbate inter-communial bad feelings. I wonder how our Quebec friends would react to an anglo politician in Ontario exhorting the population to speak only English.

I also deplore restricting immigration on the grounds that immigrants threaten the native majority culture, though nations naturally have the right to restrict immigration for whatever reasons the public wants. I think it is self-defeating. But this isn't the same as restricting the rights of people who are already citizens of the country, which is more of a concern.

[Zoupa]

I have read the platform statements of the new party and they dont sound nearly so benign as all that.  They want to prevent Francophones from attending Anglophone educational institutions.  They want to prevent any immigrant from attending an Anglophone educational institution.  They want to reduce immigration to the province.

We have not read the same thing. Except for the reducing immigration for a two year period, the rest is not in their platform.

That is what the globe was reporting yesterday.  I just read a translation of the actual platform and you are correct.  It is not there.

You should call or e-mail the globe to correct them, never buy it again and tell all your friends about their shit reporting.


....right?

[Malthus]

The system doesn't work, no. Hence the only 51% of allophones functional in french. Hence the proposals for added funding, more classes.

Sometimes I wish we had a language police like all you wasps think we do. Then you could bitch and moan even more, wring your hands and do nothing, the Canadian way.

Why are you so cranky today, Zoupa? I mean, you're usually pretty spirited but this a bit out of the ordinary.

I've explained and explained the school system here hundreds of times. It gets tiring. The sense of entitlement of anglocanadians is pretty staggering, not to mention the veiled comparisons to the gestapo, hints at racism etc. The comments are not so veiled elsewhere btw, like from toronto newspapers editorials or comments.

The only Nazi references made in this thread are being made by Viper and you - both from Quebec. So you may wish to reconsider this line of attack.

[Zoupa]

It is not reasonable to use the coercive power of the government to support the culture of one subset of its citizens over another by enacting restictions that go beyond that, to enact measures designed symbolically to emphasize the primacy of one culture over another, to interfere in the free exercise of a parent's choice of language for the education of their children so as to enculturate them with the majority culture even though the parents do not wish this, simply because they are immigrants to the province, etc. 

Hi, I come from Botswana and want to have my kids schooled in Swahili, in Brampton Ontario. Please pay for it, this needs to be a public school. 

[Zoupa]

The only Nazi references made in this thread are being made by Viper and you - both from Quebec. So you may wish to reconsider this line of attack.

In this thread, maybe.

[Jacob]

I've explained and explained the school system here hundreds of times. It gets tiring. The sense of entitlement of anglocanadians is pretty staggering, not to mention the veiled comparisons to the gestapo, hints at racism etc. The comments are not so veiled elsewhere btw, like from toronto newspapers editorials or comments.

But why is that causing you to shit on BB who was arguing on your side?