Thanks a lot, you motherfucking Yanks

[Valmy]

In Cal's defense we are so used to Marty insulting people personally it does not really register much.

[katmai]

[Valmy]

The problem with that is that US prosperity at home is built on international trade and global stability.  If we're talking about rolling that back, we're talking about rolling back American standards of living as well.

Our wars in crap localities in Asia are securing international trade and global stability?

[Oexmelin]

When is a party "not hijacked", or "pre-hijacked" ?

[HVC]

When is a party "not hijacked", or "pre-hijacked" ?

A party is "hijacked" at the point where it stops saying what you want to hear and starts saying what more people want to hear. it's a moving target.

[Neil]

It doesn't take five months to organize a rally.  And this rally was not even about TARP.  Sorry, but this is occurred during the Obama administration.  It's unlikely it would have occurred during a Republican presidency.  The Tea Party isn't really new, it's simply the most recent manifestation of right wing populism, it pops up ever so often when Conservatives feel threatened.  In the 1990's it was the Reform party and the militias.  In the late 60's and 70's it was the Silent Majority.  50's it was McCarthyism.  In the 30's the Silver shirts and the Black Legion.  In the 1920's it was the Klan.

Some of these things aren't like the others.  I mean, I can see what you're talking about with Perot and Paul, and the militias on the extreme end of the scale.  The Silent Majority wasn't a group, it was a speech and it seems that they worked, seeing as Nixon got won twice.  McCarthyism was a panic, not a real political movement.  Pelley's Silver Shirts were a ridiculous sideshow of Nazi-wannebes and were never a serious political movement.  The Klan was a region-specific group of militant conservative Democrats and not a national political movement.

But then again, you're just trolling, aren't you?

Education?  Nope.  Agriculture?  Nope. Defense?  Nope?  Social Security?  Nope. Veterans benefits?  Nope.  Medicare?  Nope.

There are four things that a majority of Tea Party members want to cut.  Healthcare (Obamacare!  Death Panels!), Environmental protection (Global Warming hoax!),  Foreign AID (filthy America hating foreigners), and unemployment ( lazy bums).  You aren't going to balance the budget cutting those.  It's miniscule bullshit.  What this tells me is they mad, but not exactly sure why they are mad.  Obama is President and there is a deficit, but beyond that... there's nothing.  Just populist ignorance.

People didn't care about the deficit when it was in numbers that they could understand.  But as soon as you talk about 'a trillion dollars', it scares people.  Just wait until the debt hits a quadrillion dollars, and then you'll see another panic.

[Neil]

The problem with that is that US prosperity at home is built on international trade and global stability.  If we're talking about rolling that back, we're talking about rolling back American standards of living as well.

Our wars in crap localities in Asia are securing international trade and global stability?

That was certainly the idea.  Then US troops in Korea and Japan and the US arms in Israel and Saudi Arabia are certainly doing that.

[Valmy]

That was certainly the idea.  Then US troops in Korea and Japan and the US arms in Israel and Saudi Arabia are certainly doing that.

The Saudis buy our stuff with good money, The Koreans and Japanese are rich and perfectly capable of defending themselves, and it is debateable us helping Israel is really promoting world wide stability.  Yeah not really seeing it.

[Neil]

That was certainly the idea.  Then US troops in Korea and Japan and the US arms in Israel and Saudi Arabia are certainly doing that.

The Saudis buy our stuff with good money, The Koreans and Japanese are rich and perfectly capable of defending themselves, and it is debateable us helping Israel is really promoting world wide stability.  Yeah not really seeing it.

That's because you're forgetting the true nature of humanity and how they operate unless there is a greater force restraining them.

[grumbler]

In Cal's defense we are so used to Marty insulting people personally it does not really register much.

  Noting that Marti is a moron is like noting that water is wet.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

whatever,  you should be looking at long term for your stocks. People who fuss over every dip and hike just annoy everyone else who knows that shit happens, things change stocks go up and down. sky not falling, it's the sky.

[Razgovory]

It doesn't take five months to organize a rally.  And this rally was not even about TARP.  Sorry, but this is occurred during the Obama administration.  It's unlikely it would have occurred during a Republican presidency.  The Tea Party isn't really new, it's simply the most recent manifestation of right wing populism, it pops up ever so often when Conservatives feel threatened.  In the 1990's it was the Reform party and the militias.  In the late 60's and 70's it was the Silent Majority.  50's it was McCarthyism.  In the 30's the Silver shirts and the Black Legion.  In the 1920's it was the Klan.

Some of these things aren't like the others.  I mean, I can see what you're talking about with Perot and Paul, and the militias on the extreme end of the scale.  The Silent Majority wasn't a group, it was a speech and it seems that they worked, seeing as Nixon got won twice.  McCarthyism was a panic, not a real political movement.  Pelley's Silver Shirts were a ridiculous sideshow of Nazi-wannebes and were never a serious political movement.  The Klan was a region-specific group of militant conservative Democrats and not a national political movement.

But then again, you're just trolling, aren't you?

Education?  Nope.  Agriculture?  Nope. Defense?  Nope?  Social Security?  Nope. Veterans benefits?  Nope.  Medicare?  Nope.

There are four things that a majority of Tea Party members want to cut.  Healthcare (Obamacare!  Death Panels!), Environmental protection (Global Warming hoax!),  Foreign AID (filthy America hating foreigners), and unemployment ( lazy bums).  You aren't going to balance the budget cutting those.  It's miniscule bullshit.  What this tells me is they mad, but not exactly sure why they are mad.  Obama is President and there is a deficit, but beyond that... there's nothing.  Just populist ignorance.

People didn't care about the deficit when it was in numbers that they could understand.  But as soon as you talk about 'a trillion dollars', it scares people.  Just wait until the debt hits a quadrillion dollars, and then you'll see another panic.

Clearly you are unfamiliar with the Klan.  In the South it was Democratic.  In Northern States like Indiana and Maine it was Republican.  In the 1920's the Klan was very large.  Several million people.

[Razgovory]

I think the reason Barrister jumped on Prin like that was because going on about government spending on exotic ants is exactly what's was wrong with the Tea Party movement.  Tea Party members are fed stuff about hundreds of thousands of dollars spent for dance schools and other irrelevant bullshit, because the the guys organizing these protests and paying speakers don't actually care about the deficit.  They wanted Republicans to return to government.  They want people to be angry at the President and Congress, but that's about it.  So they try to focus attention on tiny things that are likely to infuriate folks, but not the big things (which people are less likely to be angry about).  They certainly don't want to solve these perceived problems.  After all, they want to be able to haull it out again ten years down the line when they need an ace up their sleeves.  Besides, many of people funding these things profit quite a bit from Government contracts.  They sure as hell don't want to lose that.

[Barrister]

I think the reason Barrister jumped on Prin like that was because going on about government spending on exotic ants is exactly what's was wrong with the Tea Party movement.  Tea Party members are fed stuff about hundreds of thousands of dollars spent for dance schools and other irrelevant bullshit, because the the guys organizing these protests and paying speakers don't actually care about the deficit.  They wanted Republicans to return to government.  They want people to be angry at the President and Congress, but that's about it.  So they try to focus attention on tiny things that are likely to infuriate folks, but not the big things (which people are less likely to be angry about).  They certainly don't want to solve these perceived problems.  After all, they want to be able to haull it out again ten years down the line when they need an ace up their sleeves.  Besides, many of people funding these things profit quite a bit from Government contracts.  They sure as hell don't want to lose that.

Please don't speak for me on this.

[Neil]

Clearly you are unfamiliar with the Klan.  In the South it was Democratic.  In Northern States like Indiana and Maine it was Republican.  In the 1920's the Klan was very large.  Several million people.

I suppose.  One tends to think of the later Klan fighting integration when one thinks of the Klan.  Still, that's not especially important.  The Tea Party isn't remotely comparable to the Klan, which was an organization devoted to criminality and thuggishness.  Even if you disagree with their goals, the Tea Party seems to be dedicated to working within the legal system.  I suppose you can say that they are similar in that both groups have an extremely short lifespan, but you could say that of all sorts of groups, from the Deaniacs to the Vancouver Grizzlies NBA team.