Most Overrated President

[Ideologue]

Killin' cubans is always a good thing.

By that metric, JFK is the best president ever!

The devil's advocate view might be, though, that "he held slaves, and is thus immediately overrated".

Yes.

[Razgovory]

The devil's advocate view might be, though, that "he held slaves, and is thus immediately overrated".

Doesn't even put a dent in his legacy.  Compare him to Simon Bolivar who hated slavery, but did not resign.  It's the difference between a stable Democratic Republic and an unstable series of dictatorships.

[CountDeMoney]

JFK's weakness is why the crisis even happened, JFK was notable for ignoring the advice of people who before he accepted their expertise without question.

After Laos and the Bay of Pigs, I wouldn't have listened to those fucksticks either.

[garbon]

The devil's advocate view might be, though, that "he held slaves, and is thus immediately overrated".

I'm not sure what sense it makes evaluating historical actors if you are going to divorce them from their context.

[Ideologue]

The devil's advocate view might be, though, that "he held slaves, and is thus immediately overrated".

I'm not sure what sense it makes evaluating historical actors if you are going to divorce them from their context.

How is that divorcing them from their context?

[Ed Anger]

Killin' cubans is always a good thing.

By that metric, JFK is the best president ever!

He didn't do it right.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I'm tempted to say Lincoln or Washington, both are very highly-rated presidents who have not been included in the poll. This immunity or sanctity is suspicious 

[OttoVonBismarck]

I'm tempted to say Lincoln or Washington, both are very highly-rated presidents who have not been included in the poll. This immunity or sanctity is suspicious 

As a mealy-mouthed Brit who hasn't had a decent political leader since Charles II I can understand this foolish comment, but as an American I tell you that I will put up with quite a lot but no way in hell I will stand for someone talking bad about George Washington or Abraham Lincoln. I sternly suggest you retract from this line of discussion lest you force me to defend the honor of my country in a duel.

[grumbler]

The devil's advocate view might be, though, that "he held slaves, and is thus immediately overrated".

Hell, the devil's advocate view might be that "he had false teeth, and is thus immediately overrated."

Don't confuse devil's advocacy with actual rational argumentation.  Devil's advocacy is designed to provoke thought, but not to win arguments.

[Razgovory]

The devil's advocate view might be, though, that "he held slaves, and is thus immediately overrated".

Hell, the devil's advocate view might be that "he had false teeth, and is thus immediately overrated."

Don't confuse devil's advocacy with actual rational argumentation.  Devil's advocacy is designed to provoke thought, but not to win arguments.

It's designed to test the validity of a case for Sainthood.

[grumbler]

I'm tempted to say Lincoln or Washington, both are very highly-rated presidents who have not been included in the poll. This immunity or sanctity is suspicious 

The question is "over-rated" though, not "highly rated."  Merely being highly rated doesn't make one over-rated.

The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise -- with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country.

Fellow-citizens, we cannot escape history. We of this Congress and this administration, will be remembered in spite of ourselves. No personal significance, or insignificance, can spare one or another of us. The fiery trial through which we pass, will light us down, in honor or dishonor, to the last generation. We say we are for the Union. The world will not forget that we say this. We know how to save the Union. The world knows we do know how to save it. We -- even we here -- hold the power, and bear the responsibility. In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free -- honorable alike in what we give, and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth.

[Tonitrus]

The devil's advocate view might be, though, that "he held slaves, and is thus immediately overrated".

Hell, the devil's advocate view might be that "he had false teeth, and is thus immediately overrated."

Don't confuse devil's advocacy with actual rational argumentation.  Devil's advocacy is designed to provoke thought, but not to win arguments.

Did you just accuse me of inadvertantly making a rational argument? 

And per your quote from Lincoln, there is no doubt in my mind, that Lincoln wins the "Most Eloquent President" award.  And is certainly in the running for "Most Eloquent Human Being Ever".

[Neil]

Washington was a treasonous criminal, and thus not worthy of being considered 'great'.

[Ideologue]

The devil's advocate view might be, though, that "he held slaves, and is thus immediately overrated".

Hell, the devil's advocate view might be that "he had false teeth, and is thus immediately overrated."

Don't confuse devil's advocacy with actual rational argumentation.  Devil's advocacy is designed to provoke thought, but not to win arguments.

The rational argument in this case appearing to be "everyone was doing it."

[CountDeMoney]

Washington was a treasonous criminal, and thus not worthy of being considered 'great'.

Don't you have a Pierre Trudeau RealDoll(tm) you should be violating right now?