Most Overrated President

[Neil]

The devil's advocate view might be, though, that "he held slaves, and is thus immediately overrated".

Hell, the devil's advocate view might be that "he had false teeth, and is thus immediately overrated."

Don't confuse devil's advocacy with actual rational argumentation.  Devil's advocacy is designed to provoke thought, but not to win arguments.

The rational argument in this case appearing to be "everyone was doing it."

Wouldn't slavery at that point be considered not only moral, but laudable?  They were rescuing people from Africa and transporting their descendents to a future of lucrative pro sports contracts and crime.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Washington was a treasonous criminal, and thus not worthy of being considered 'great'.

You ought to be taken out back and flogged like the traitor you are. Everyone knows that the German pretender George III was no more a King than I, the true King during the Revolution was Charles Edward Louis John Casimir Sylvester Maria Stuart - Charles III (Bonnie Prince Charlie if you must), and since the peoples of Great Britain had long since forsaken the rightful monarchs of their Kingdom Washington was no more bound to them than I am to a random farm mule.

[Neil]

Washington was a treasonous criminal, and thus not worthy of being considered 'great'.

You ought to be taken out back and flogged like the traitor you are. Everyone knows that the German pretender George III was no more a King than I, the true King during the Revolution was Charles Edward Louis John Casimir Sylvester Maria Stuart - Charles III (Bonnie Prince Charlie if you must), and since the peoples of Great Britain had long since forsaken the rightful monarchs of their Kingdom Washington was no more bound to them than I am to a random farm mule.

Charles Stuart was a Catholic, and thus it would be illegal for him to be king.

[Razgovory]

I thought that law postdated him.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Charles Stuart was a Catholic, and thus it would be illegal for him to be king.

You put the laws of man before the rightful succession of a King? The German George I was more than 50 places removed from the throne, so much so that it is almost laughable to consider him or any of his descendants proper Kings of the United Kingdom. How could a man feel allegiance to someone whose claim to the crown is so manufactured?

[CountDeMoney]

Charles Stuart was a Catholic, and thus it would be illegal for him to be king.

Well, there's your problem right there.

[Neil]

Charles Stuart was a Catholic, and thus it would be illegal for him to be king.

You put the laws of man before the rightful succession of a King? The German George I was more than 50 places removed from the throne, so much so that it is almost laughable to consider him or any of his descendants proper Kings of the United Kingdom. How could a man feel allegiance to someone whose claim to the crown is so manufactured?

He wasn't a Catholic, so that's a pretty strong claim right there.

[grumbler]

You put the laws of man before the rightful succession of a King? The German George I was more than 50 places removed from the throne, so much so that it is almost laughable to consider him or any of his descendants proper Kings of the United Kingdom. How could a man feel allegiance to someone whose claim to the crown is so manufactured?

This is starting to sound like a No True Scotsman argument.  All claims to all crowns are highly manufactured.  Some people (e.g. Neil) willfully ignore that fact, and insist that all others willfully ignore that fact, but they are like Islamic extremists: to be guarded against, lest they do rash things, but not to be otherwise taken seriously.

[Camerus]

I'm tempted to choose Jefferson for a variety of reasons.  Ide already outlined most of them, but I will also add that in retrospect Jefferson was so obviously on the wrong side of history in his hatred of banks and desire to foster an agrarian republic that it is almost painful.  Dude was also one self-righteous, hypocritical human being.  However, Jefferson is already a figure of such immense controversy, that I'm not sure whether he is truly the most "overrated" of presidents.

From my vantage point in late July 2011, I've got to go with Reagan as the most overrated of presidents.  Sure, I think he was in many ways a pretty good president who, coming after Carter and the upheavals of the '70's, restored some pride and prosperity to the US.  But his legacy left an extremely damaging belief among his millions of fanbois, and that is "voodoo economics".  The idea that deficits don't really matter, taxes should only be cut, never raised, etc. has contributed to what is arguably the greatest crisis for the USA in my lifetime.  So many post-Reagan Republicans and their retarded Tea Bagging cousins have simply accepted that as a fundamental economic axiom that it is making the current attempt at dire-needed reform more difficult by several orders of magnitude.

[Valmy]

The problem with Reagan is that alot of the things he did were expedients that were good in the particular circumstances of the time.  But for some reason now they are embraced as eternal dogma.

I think JFK is more over-rated but unlike Reagan we do not keep trying to recreate his presidency all the time.

Well ok I guess the exception would be the Americorps thing.

[Malthus]

I chose JFK as "most overrated" simply because his high rating was mostly based on his image* and the manner of his death, not on any concrete policies he actually enacted.




*Oh, and boffing Monroe. 

[The Brain]

I chose JFK as "most overrated" simply because his high rating was mostly based on his image* and the manner of his death, not on any concrete policies he actually enacted.




*Oh, and boffing Monroe. 

OK, vM.

[grumbler]

The problem with Reagan is that alot of the things he did were expedients that were good in the particular circumstances of the time.  But for some reason now they are embraced as eternal dogma.

I agree with the latter part of your observation, but disagree that that's a "problem with Reagan."  It's a problem with the Reagan idolators, but he is dead.

I would say that the problem with Reagan is that his second term pretty much undid any good his first term accomplished.

[derspiess]

Fuck you, sweater vest monkey.  You come after James Earle Carter: Cold Warrior, you come after me.

[Zeus]

FDR

da fuck? How could anyone say FDR is overrated?