[SPOILERS] A Dance With Dragons

[grumbler]

No, I don't think there was any in-fighting at Winterfell (well, aside from the obvious bits, of course).  Mors Umber was the force that had sided with Stannis and were the ones responsible for blowing the horns that drew the Bolton's forces out of the walls.  I think it's most likely that Theon and Jeyne's fall was cushioned by snow and they simply escaped to the "good guy's" lines in the confusion--something made all the easier by the splitting of the Bolton-Frey and Manderly forces.

ahh, yes, i had completely forgotten about the other umber group. that would explain that part. thank you for explaining the confusion. i'm unsure then, but given ramsay's nature i would not be surprised if he had lied about the death of stannis. the reference to the magical sword can be explained through the torture of mance and/or the spear-wives

But it is Ramsey, not Roose, sending the letter.  He wouldn't be doing that if Roose were still alive, which implies some fighting.

It isn't likely that Stannis is dead, because how could Ramsey have defeated and destroyed Stannis's army and not discover that Theon and "Arya" had been with it, and not with Jon Snow?

[Razgovory]

I still agree with Grumbler on this.  Martin is a talented author.  He can string sentences together well (which is harder then it looks), and make them aesthetically pleasing.  He's brimming with ideas, but he needs a good editor to cut out much of the fat.  His novels need more focus.  I'm somewhat reminded of a the story of the Aleph by Borges.  In the story the narrator meets a poet who is trying to describe everything in the entire world (he also has a secret means to see everything), in one poem.  Martin has the same problem.  He's describing a massive number of characters and places and plot lines, to the point where it threatens to collapse on itself.  I haven't read the new one yet, but it doesn't sound like he's remedied this problem.  I fear he'll simply die before the novels are finished (which would be very unfortunate because the books are good and the plots are interesting.  Also he's probably not like to die anytime soon.)

Also the guy wears the same hat as I do, and his bear grows out the way mine does.   Someone pointed out that he looks like an older version of me, something I find somewhat distressing.

[grumbler]

--something made all the easier by the splitting of the Bolton-Frey and Manderly forces.

Was anyone else disappointed that Manderly didn't have some devious and cruelly effective (though possibly suicidal) scheme for revenge all laid out for the Freys?  I was really looking forward to the hammer falling, and it never fell.  Manderly just ate stuff. 

[Viking]

--something made all the easier by the splitting of the Bolton-Frey and Manderly forces.

Was anyone else disappointed that Manderly didn't have some devious and cruelly effective (though possibly suicidal) scheme for revenge all laid out for the Freys?  I was really looking forward to the hammer falling, and it never fell.  Manderly just ate stuff. 

You mean like after getting Roose Bolton killed in a skirmish convincing the now immensely trickable Ramsay that Stannis' Army was destroyed when it was really out in the storm getting ready to storm Winterfell when White Harbour opens the gates? That sort of devious and cruelly effective plan? No Frey has successfully managed to get anywhere alive after being within the power of White Harbour since Manderley's son was returned. Roose Bolton was suspicious of Manderly from the get go, presumably Manderly wants the elder Bolton out of the way before striking. Remember the theme of the book, wise leadership matters.

[grumbler]

You mean like after getting Roose Bolton killed in a skirmish convincing the now immensely trickable Ramsay that Stannis' Army was destroyed when it was really out in the storm getting ready to storm Winterfell when White Harbour opens the gates? That sort of devious and cruelly effective plan?

No, I meant something devious and cruelly effective.  Since what you describe didn't happen, as far as we know, whatever plan Manderly had wasn't effective to our knowledge (though it could still happen in the next book, of course).

No Frey has successfully managed to get anywhere alive after being within the power of White Harbour since Manderley's son was returned. Roose Bolton was suspicious of Manderly from the get go, presumably Manderly wants the elder Bolton out of the way before striking. Remember the theme of the book, wise leadership matters.

Why all of the one Frey delegations seems to have been offed, that's not much revenge at all.  It is possible that Manderly's revenge comes in the next book, but that doesn't mean I wasn't disappointed to see no such thing in this book. 

[Habbaku]

--something made all the easier by the splitting of the Bolton-Frey and Manderly forces.

Was anyone else disappointed that Manderly didn't have some devious and cruelly effective (though possibly suicidal) scheme for revenge all laid out for the Freys?  I was really looking forward to the hammer falling, and it never fell.  Manderly just ate stuff. 

I was disappointed that we weren't privy to seeing it in this book, certainly, but I do think that he either pulled his trick and we'll find out about it next, or that it will be filled in in the next book.  As you mentioned, Ramsay wrote the letter, which implies that Roose is quite dead, though that's about as certain as Stannis' death.

[Zoupa]

Aegon!
The son of Rhaegar is alive and heading to Volantis to link up with Daenerys.
What a cop out.
Reviving the Targaryen male line is bad storytelling, in my opinion.
GRRM is disappointing me once again. This is becoming a soap opera.

I'm about a third of the way in. Aegon is alive  So very lame. Sometimes i think Martin takes his cues from internet theories about his books... Who cares what the prophecy about the dragon has 3 heads means? You don't need to box yourself in like that.

And what's up with those greyscale people in the Tyrion chapters? They're not explained very well, yet there's like 3 tyrion chapters so far on that damn pole boat. Yawn.

I'm not impressed so far. Six years of waiting for this?

[LaCroix]

I was really looking forward to the hammer falling, and it never fell.  Manderly just ate stuff. 

to be fair, he did serve up freys cooked in pies

[Viking]

I was really looking forward to the hammer falling, and it never fell.  Manderly just ate stuff. 

to be fair, he did serve up freys cooked in pies

Well.. Manderly did ask for the song about the Rat Cook..... 

[grumbler]

to be fair, he did serve up freys cooked in pies

Is that what the pie stuff was all about?  I missed that.  That is pretty good revenge, getting your Frey guests to chow down on their kin.  Manderly didn't eat any of that pie, did he?

[LaCroix]

Is that what the pie stuff was all about?  I missed that.  That is pretty good revenge, getting your Frey guests to chow down on their kin.  Manderly didn't eat any of that pie, did he?

three large pies as wide across as wagon wheels, and the good manderly ate more than any other. six portions, two from each

[Habbaku]

I was really looking forward to the hammer falling, and it never fell.  Manderly just ate stuff. 

to be fair, he did serve up freys cooked in pies

Yeah, that was a pretty hilarious little scene.  "Pork" pie indeed.

[grumbler]

I also wonder why Martin has the Lannisters think they can return Gregor Clegane, now even as a knight of the Kingsguard, without paying the price.  Knights of the Kingsguard are a bit too prominent to get away with hiding the fact that the fellow is eight feet tall and built identically to Gregor.  That he never removes his helm damns him further.  How could one of the most famous figures in the land remain an unknown?

This is either very lazy writing or very clever writing.  Seven or eight years from now, we may know which.

[Viking]

If any of this speculation is true then Wyman Manderley is the coldest most calculating bastard in the 7 Kingdoms. Fortunately for Rickon he has an irrational loyalty to the Starks.



Manderley

hmmm.. .is he a martin mary sue?

[Viking]

I also wonder why Martin has the Lannisters think they can return Gregor Clegane, now even as a knight of the Kingsguard, without paying the price.  Knights of the Kingsguard are a bit too prominent to get away with hiding the fact that the fellow is eight feet tall and built identically to Gregor.  That he never removes his helm damns him further.  How could one of the most famous figures in the land remain an unknown?

This is either very lazy writing or very clever writing.  Seven or eight years from now, we may know which.

Qyburn doesn't care
Cersei thinks she can get away with it. Anyways, Cersei doesn't want an alliance with Dorn and has probably sent Balon Swann to kidnap Myrcella. All of that would end the alliance gained with Gregor's head.
Kevan doesn't know about it.
Lancel is a religious freak and uninvolved.
Jamie is on crusade looking for his honour and doesn't know about it.

I don't think that "The Lannisters" is relevant here. Cersei is the only Lannister involved and I don't think she cares or values the Dorn alliance. Good move on her part since Prince Doran seems determined to rise in revolt.